Petrol Xantia starter motor problems - solved

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 31 Aug 2006, 20:21

Please see my last post for solution!

My Xantia has decided to start playing up and I now have a problem starting the car.

Key in ignition, turn to start and the solenoid just clicks. The problem started a few weeks ago, very intermittently but now seems to be permanent, until I can repair it.
This afternoon, I stripped down the wiring and cleaned any suspect connectors, like the multi socket under the battery tray. Checked all the leads for continuity and shorts, all seem ok.

Disconnected the terminals to the solenoid and cleaned off the oil on them, reconnected and still no start. Tried jumping the starter motor with ignition on and a large cable from +ve battery terminal to starter. All it did was whir, solenoid not clicking in to throw the starter gear.

Questions: Is the solenoid knackered? Could my fault lie with the ignition switch? Is there a cure or test for knackered ignition switches?
The battery is relatively new and showed no faults with a Nolten discharge tester, so it ain't that.
Any positive comments to resolve the problem would be much appreciated as I am supposed to be driving to France on Sunday!
Handyman

slim123 · Unread post by **slim123** » 31 Aug 2006, 20:32

You could try simply connecting a wire to the connector on the solenoid, bare the other end then touch it onto battery live, if the starter spins then the problem must be switch or wiring. If you get the same click, then i'm afraid that the starter has s**t itself.

Before trying this make sure that the car is in nuetral, otherwise you will run yourself over.

Regards
Slim

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 31 Aug 2006, 22:14

If you can hear the solonoid clicking the problem is probably with the starter itself. The solonoid slides the starter pinion into mesh with the flywheel gear ring and when fully engaged closes the contacts that operate the starter. If the starter is not drawing sufficient current it will not slide all the way in, this is often caused by worn / stuck brushes. Do the lights dim significantly when you engage the starter, if not that rules out bad connections and also points to the starter.

dnsey · Unread post by **dnsey** » 01 Sep 2006, 02:56

Check the earths - more of a problem with Xantias than most!
What's the voltage at the starter terminals when attempting to crank?

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 01 Sep 2006, 08:28

as has been said the solanoid will not opperate if you are just putting live to the main live feed of the starter motor,the best thing to try is as slim123 said fit a wire to the spade conector on the solanoid then touch the other end to the battery +pos,min its out of gear,if it then dose the same check the negative lead where it isconected to the gear box housing
regards malcolm

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 01 Sep 2006, 09:14

On the starters on my diesels the connection from the solenoid to the motor is external. This means that just below the solenoid there is a large bolt and nut terminal and if I supplied this with power I would expect the motor to spin fast and NOT engage with the engine.

The solenoid on these starters has 2 functions - The first is to engage the drive pinion with the flywheel, and once that is done the second is to turn on full power to the motor.

If the solenoid clicks but nothing else happens then either it is failing to put the gear in mesh (damaged gear, sticky mechanism or even dirt in the solenoid itself - tends to get an oil bath from carelss filling of the sump) or more likely the contacts have burned or something and its failing to turn the motor.

Worth operating it with the headlights on. Click and lights go out - insufficient power to turn the engine over. No dimming - no contact in solenoid and so no motor drive.

Another common starter fault is sticking or worn brushes. There are 2 pairs in starters (4 in all) and if one sticks - the motor has insufficient power to turn the engine properly but would spin out of mesh with the engine. A smart tap with a hammer or similar may jerk the sticky one free and the motor will function normally - but you are on notice of future problems.

Not very difficult to take to bits - but you may have trouble getting the internal components if you find any are defective and can't be cleaned, freed off or re-aligned.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 01 Sep 2006, 13:16

the other prob you can get with the solenoid,it has two winding the heveay one throughs the solenoid into mesh and as the curent drops of the lighter winding just holds it in mesh,if the lighter one fails the solenoid will just click
regards malcolm

frankielunn · Unread post by **frankielunn** » 01 Sep 2006, 21:30

i had same problem a few weeks ago... starter spun very slow then after a few days nothing.... and got new battery, cleaned contacts ect ect but to no avail, managed to buy a brand new starter motor off ebay(guy from western super mare).....fitted the starter myself was a bit fiddly... haynes says remove intake manifold,if you have a 16v that is... but managed to do it just by lifting inlet manifold a few inches... need to take a fair bit of hardware off but all in all not a bad job anyway that solved the problem, engine spins like a good one...i still have the old starter .... the brushes look ok too me,so don't know what problem was..as mentioned earlier i think a new starter is in order but probably too late for your trip to france.

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 02 Sep 2006, 06:09

Thanks to all the contributors with their advice about my dodgy starter.
I went over all the electrical tests with motor in situ, everything looked good and all readings were as expected.
It turned out to be oil on the terminal post to the ignition switch wiring. A strip down and a good clean with contact cleaner solved the problem. I can only surmize that the oil had come from careless filling of oil where an excess had fallen onto the wiring and saturated this are.
Car now starts perfectly.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 02 Sep 2006, 14:39

Oil by itself shouldn't affect it unless the connection was loose, so hope you don't get a recurrance!