Xantia 1.9 TD Tickover

acrowot · Post by **acrowot** » 26 Aug 2006, 18:59

I have a problem with the tickover on this car, there is no "high idle", someone had maladjusted the high idle adjustment screw on the pump locking the lever. I have readjusted the screw and the engine will fast idle. The problem now being it will now not "normal idle", if I take the vacuum pipe off the elecktro valves and put it on the vacuum unit the engine then drops down to normal idle. The blue elecktro valve is faulty, it is stuck in the closed position, so this does need replacing, I have tested the voltage on the plug feeding this blue elecktro valve and there is 12volts on it all the time engine hot or cold, if I replace the elecktro valve I assume because of this it will be permenantly opetrated giving me normal idle all the time. I have had one of these valves apart and it seems that the valve is shut with no voltage on the coil and open with voltage, but I am not certain about this because it is faulty. I also think but am not sure that the green sensor at the back of the filter is the sensor tells the ECU when the engine is hot and the ECU then sends the 12volts to the electro vale to operate it. I have removed the plug from this sensor and tested it , it has a high resistance when cold and short circuit when hot. Can anyone help with this problem, or tell me if my understanding of how this woks is flawed.l

Post by **Peter.N.** » 27 Aug 2006, 22:13

I am not familier with ECU controlled XUDs as all mine have been purely mechanical, but if the valve you describe is designed to hold the throttle open when cold to increase the rpm then it will be operated by a thermostatic sensor, if as you say, that is working OK and feeding its output into the ECU but not controling the valve, I would assume you have an ECU problem. It sounds from your description that your pump has a mechanical throttle control lever, in which case I would not have thought that it had an ECU, what year is it?

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 27 Aug 2006, 22:55

The idle control lever on the pump defaults to the fast idle position when the engine is not running or the engine is cold. In this situation the blue electrovalve isn't energised.

When the engine warms up the temp sender tells the ecu that temp has risen. The ecu then energises the blue electrovalve and the diaphragm is pulled in which pulls the cable to move the pump's idle control lever to the normal idle position. No pull on cable means that the idle arm springs back to fast idle position.

The blue electrovalve is energised virtually all the time. It only de energises if the aircon is on and you lift the throttle, say at traffic lights, giving you fast idle all the time the aircon is on.

If your car has aircon ofcourse. You'll notice that the fast idle setting is used when the aircon is running, even when the engine is hot.

Hope this helps.

By the way, I had to replace my bue electrovalve on my old 1.9 turbod Xantia. Being energised all the time eventually takes its toll on the solenoid.

Cheers, Kev

RichG · Post by **RichG** » 27 Aug 2006, 23:05

Acrowot,

It's nice to find another Hatter on this forum and, perhaps, another RC flyer judging by your forum name.

I had the blue electrvalve fail on my Xantia a few years ago and I bought a new one. For some reason the blue (fast idle) ones are dearer than the green (EGR) ones although they appear to be the same except for the 'key' on the connection socket. Even the coil resistance is the same. If you cut the 'keys' from the sockets of the valves connection sockets then you can use the EGR valve as a fast idle one. This should tell you whether your system is working correctly. You may have 12v on the plug all of the time but it may not be at sufficient current to open the valve when the engine is cold.

Richard

Post by **Peter.N.** » 27 Aug 2006, 23:32

Sorry, far to new for me!

acrowot · Post by **acrowot** » 27 Aug 2006, 23:55

Hi RichG, yes I do fly RC fixed wing although not as often as I used to do, I did think that the 12volt may be some sort of resistive 12volt thus limiting the current but not having purchased a new electrovalve yet I have not tested this theory. The EGR electrovalve has a resistance of 35ohms but the fast idle has about 3300ohms resistance so if they should be the same then the fast idle is high resistance. From these readings then the coil would pull approx330ma so perhaps as you suggest the 12volt with cold engine may not pull in the electrovalve. I have two ECUs and they both produce 12volts all the time so I do not think it is an ECU problem. The only other item that could affect this electrovalve is the aircon but this should remove the 12volt anyway not the other way around.

RichG · Post by **RichG** » 28 Aug 2006, 09:41

Acrowot,

When I had my problem I measured the resistance of both electrovalves and the blue one was higher. Mine actually worked for about 5 minutes and then the coil went open circuit. I bought new blue and green valves and measured the resistance which was 27.7ohms for the blue valve and 27.3 for the green one. I did use the green valve as a fast idle valve for about a week while I got some new ones.

Richard

acrowot · Post by **acrowot** » 28 Aug 2006, 10:13

Hi RichG
Were did you get your valves from and what did they cost.
John

RichG · Post by **RichG** » 28 Aug 2006, 11:48

I hope that you are sat down!

I got them from the Citroen Manchester main Dealer in Upper Brook Street (I work in Manchester). In September 2004 the Blue Valve (Part Number C1628L9) was £29.15 and the Green one (Part Number C1628V3) was £18.55. All prices are plus vat.

Richard

acrowot · Post by **acrowot** » 28 Aug 2006, 12:13

Thanks Richard, not cheap then, my brother used to work there in the bodyshop, he is a bus driver now so no help there. Will let you know how I get on.
John

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 28 Aug 2006, 13:03

acrowot wrote:Thanks Richard, not cheap then, my brother used to work there in the bodyshop, he is a bus driver now so no help there. Will let you know how I get on.
John

My Mk2 Xantia had the same problem with high revs at idle. I disconnected the idle control Vacuum that feeds to the fuel pump and I've manually set the idle speed to I think around 850 - 900.
It works fine like this in both summer and winter.

Regards

acrowot · Post by **acrowot** » 28 Aug 2006, 17:04

Well I have done some more testing today and here are the results, I wired a 12v/5watt bulb in place of the electro valve and switched on the ignition, the bulb lit, I started the car and the bulb extinguished, after a short while when the engine had warmed up a bit the bulb lit, I switched on the aircon the bulb extinguished. So all is working as it should, the 12volts I read on the plug to the electrovalve is not resistive and does light the bulb, so all that is required now is the two elecktro valves and all should be OK. I paid £217.13 for this car off ebay and the cost of these valves is over 25% of that, but the car did have known problems when I bought it. Cylinder head gasket, pressure regulator, no interior mirror, it has cost a total of £500.00 pounds so far but I do have a spare engine included in these costs. The only problem left is the rev counter is on Full Scale Deflection and the MOT runs out on Thursday, but I am confident it will pass. It is a nice looking estate car and it runs very well indeed, but it has been a lot of work and the total cost will be near to £600.00 and it does make me wonder if I could have purchased one that did not need all this work for £600.00 pounds. Still it has kept me out of mischief. Thanks to all who helped, in particular RichG.
John

2512Steve · Post by **2512Steve** » 28 Aug 2006, 20:52

Hi John,

Sorry, can't help you with your problem, but personally think you're quids in getting a '98 TD Estate for that money.

My '96 TD Estate cost me more than that, then about £300 for calipers, pads & discs, now rear spheres and who knows what next (see posting: High riding, hard rear suspension - Xantia TD Estate).

Regards,
Steve; still

acrowot · Post by **acrowot** » 29 Aug 2006, 00:24

Hi Steve
Thanks for your reply, I do not really have any problems with the car now except for the rev counter, this is not something that is desperately urgent as indeed neither was the fast idle, it is just that I like everthing to work as it should. The brakes are spot on they are powerful and smooth the pads all look recent and the rear calipers look like they have been off probably to scrape off the corrosion that twists them. there is no pumping or on and off buisness with the pedal,the handbrake is on with 1 click, it does not have ABS so that is one thing less to go wrong. All in all it does seem to be a bargain but I have done an awful lot of work on it. There is a receipt for when the previous owner bought it 8 months before selling it to me, this is for £1500.00 rather steep I thought, but the car is nice inside and out but it is missing it's load cover.
I only bought this estate car as a workhorse mainly to replace an ageing Peugeot Diesel Estate to tow my Grandsons trailer with his class 2 Autograss racer to the various meetings, if it gives as good service as the Pug I will be more than pleased.

Regards John

acrowot · Post by **acrowot** » 29 Aug 2006, 17:17

Hi Richard

Tried Abbey in Sale, Peugeot dealers for these parts and after quoting the part numbers you gave me I was told they were both £14.32 plus vat so i ordered them, should be here tomorrow morning, it seems the pug part number is the same as the citroen if you remove the C. Thanks once again.

John

That price included the VAT, £28.65 for the two.

John