BIO DIESEL

[WELSHVIKING]

Hi,
The local garage to me has started selling bio diesel, firstly would it be ok to use in my XANTIA 1.9 TD SX 1995 and my wifes PICASSO 2.0 HDI SX and secondly apart from it being cheaper than normal diesel what would the advantages and dis-advantages be for using bio diesel ?
Thanks Colin

[KP]

IIRC the disadvantages are that it waxs over at a higher temp than normal diesel, it means you need to keep a tab on the fuel filter as it often contains a tiny bit more water in it, and it doesnt work straight from the go in HDI cars without problems with the seals i *think*

I ran our old 1.9td on it for a fair while over about 2000 miles and it was fine, on either veg mix or bio mix and BP ulitmate for a few litres to keep the system clear

[dnsey]

I agree with what KP says, but the best thing is to ask the garage. Under the Sale of Goods Act, if you make it clear what you will be using it for, any consequential problems are their fault!

[caeclyd2]

Hi,
The local garage to me has started selling bio diesel, firstly would it be ok to use in my XANTIA 1.9 TD SX 1995 and my wifes PICASSO 2.0 HDI SX and secondly apart from it being cheaper than normal diesel what would the advantages and dis-advantages be for using bio diesel ?
Thanks Colin

Colin,
Yes I did notice in the local press that one of the councils in the area were carrying out trials using this fuel.
Can you give me a list of garages that sell the fuel nearBangor,Llandudno, Betws y coed ??
I have a 98 1.9td xantia estate and an 04 A3 tdi sport ( It is this one I would be concerened about with direct injection !)
Thanks,

Rory

[caveman_si]

1st things 1st are we talking about proper biodiesel as in fuel approved to E-DIN 51 605 standard or we talking about vegetable oil with a few thinners in? I only ask as there has been a number of people in the north wales area selling vegetable oil with thinners as biodiesel.

If it is veg oil with thinners DO NOT PUT IN THE HDI it will kill it. Veg oil with thinners may work on the Xantia 1.9td but it depends on the fuel pump more often then not though you'll kill that too.


IF its is proper Biodiesel to E-DIN 51 605 then there should be no trouble with it in the xantia. The HDI again should be fine but double check to be sure as i have never run one.. The biodiesel fuel waxes as some one has said at higher temperature buts it only really an issue during cold spells. You may notice as you use it that there is a slight drop in power. This is due to the cetane rating of biodiesel being slightly lower then petro diesel. Also you may need to change your fuel filters a couple of times after the first few tanks as biodiesel is a stronger solvent then petro diesel and will remove the deposits thats it has left in the tank and fuel lines. It is true that the biodiesel may affect the seals in the fuel system of both cars but this is unlikely as most modern cars now use a higher grade of rubber/plastic that is more resistant to chemical degredation.

For more detailed info on Biodiesel go to :
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

Very much like this forum the guys there very helpful and they know there stuff.

[Peter.N.]

Most of the hype regarding using chip fat and the like is fine for old IDI engines, they will run on practically anything that burns as long as it has some lubricant in it, but most of the vehicles using them are getting on for 10 years old now. The modern common rail engines are highly precision in the fuel injection department, use tremendous injection pressures and are known to suffer failures even on the proper spec fuel, so tread carefully.

[steelcityuk]

I'm under the impression that diesel sold in France is already 'cut' with a percentage of biodiesel. Also as someone else has pointed out there's a world of difference between biodiesel and SVO (straight veg oil), biodiesel should have undergone a chemical process to change it's properties to 'match' normal diesel. I always found a little new SVO helped my old 405 run better.

Steve.

[caveman_si]

steelcityuk yup most diesel in France is blended with biodiesel in B5 blend. In the uk there are lots of places that sell B5 which is 5% biodiesel and 95 petro diesel which is the same stuff sold in France. This is the current level of Biodiesel blend that car manufactures will warrenty engine defects that relate to fuel use.


Peter N true, IDI's will run on pretty much anything that ignites in a compression engine from diesel to veg oil to coal dust susspended in water! But by its very nature any diesel engine will. Generally it is only the ancillaries that have issues with non diesel fuel such as fuel pumps or the current trend of emissions canistors.
There are a number of vehicles with modern highpressure injection systems running on vegetable oil. Elsebett and smart veg i believe both have systems fitted in working vehicles and have done for a while. And both i believe have over come the issues of polyomerization of veg oil in the fuel lines and unburnt fuel on the emissions canistors.

But properly made biodiesel to E-DIN 51 605 standard will work in any engine. IDI or DI.

[James.UK]

Hi Caveman..

Please tell me, what's the mix for water and coal dust in a ZX 1.9D? And do I replace my glowplugs with firelighters? heh heh..

[slim123]

Going out on a limb here!!!!

I have run a diesel on veg oil for ages, quarter of a tank of diesel, the fill up with whatever is the offer of the month at the local supermarket, rape seed, corn oil, anything goes.

If you see someone walking out of Tesco's with a trolly full of veg oil, I havent got fat kids, it's my fuel.

Although, HDI type engines will run fine, the electrics dont like it.

As said before, a deisel engine will run on almost anything that burns under compression.

Of course if you do decide to use cooking oil for fuel, you have to stay legal and submit the amount used to your local tax office, together with a cheque for the road fuel duty!!!

Regards
Slim

[howiedean]

Going out on a limb here!!!!

I have run a diesel on veg oil for ages, quarter of a tank of diesel, the fill up with whatever is the offer of the month at the local supermarket, rape seed, corn oil, anything goes.

If you see someone walking out of Tesco's with a trolly full of veg oil, I havent got fat kids, it's my fuel.

Although, HDI type engines will run fine, the electrics dont like it.

As said before, a deisel engine will run on almost anything that burns under compression.

Of course if you do decide to use cooking oil for fuel, you have to stay legal and submit the amount used to your local tax office, together with a cheque for the road fuel duty!!!

Regards
Slim

Been there and tried it. HDI's with the low pressure fuel pump don't like biofuel, thats new vegetable oil or filtered waste vegetable oil. The stuff is thicker than normal diesel and from personal experience it would not pump out of the tank!!!
Biodiesel should be OK but try it at your own risk. I have to be honest I don't recommend that people use these fuels in their own cars, I'm happy to let people know how I've got on and then the choice is yours!!!
I do use WVO in my xantia td, I'd prefer to use biodiesel but it's more expensive and not available in my area.

Regards

[deian]

i'm on anglesey, i will keep an eye out too.... so this biodiesel stuff... is it ok to put in my 2.1td? and how much does it cost? thanks

[davek-uk]

Generally, I believe, the XUD Lucas diesel pump doesn't like veg oil but the Bosch pump is ok. You may find Biodiesel is thinner than vegoil, but as some vegoil meets the E-DIN 51 605 standard this is not necessarily the case. You'll probably be ok with a large percentage of proper diesel - and a well mixed tank.

[caveman_si]

Deian yup the 2.1td should be perfectly fine on proper bio diesel. Normally goes for between 80ppl and £1.10ppl but it depends on where you get it.

If i had any room in the car I would bring some for you to try out as im staying on anglesey again this weekend.

[WELSHVIKING]

Hi, It was 87.9 pence per litre last week when i drove past but it may or maynot have gone up by now