XM Aircon

Andy B · Post by **Andy B** » 29 Jul 2006, 02:13

I have a Citroen XM 3.0 V6 SEi (K reg). Today I took it to have the aircon charged. This system had R12 gas that is banned. The fitter said he had a "Drop in gas" and was going to charge the system with it.
I do not understand the aircon system so not too sure if I have got this right. The fitter found two connections on the compressor and had no idea which one was High pressure or Low pressure.
He told me that if connected to the wrong one it could kill the compressor and he was not prepared to try it.
I phoned two Citroen dealers but they could not help, both said that it was not possible to connect to the wrong one as they had different threads (They thought).
Both connections have the same thread and both have brass caps.

Need it working soon as I have lost 2 stone in weight over the last week although I do need to lose another 2 stone!

Can you tell me which is the high pressure connection. Looking at the end of the compressor it has one directly above the other.

Thank you in advance.

Andy

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 29 Jul 2006, 04:14

A fridge mechanic who can't tell which side of the compressor is what is more than a bit of a worry.

The low pressure or suction side is marked with an "S" the high pressure side is marked with a "D" (for discharge)
The "S" side is the return from the evaporator inside the car and the "D" goes from the compressor to the condensor via the receiver dryer and gets warm to hot when it's running, the suction tends to get cool.
If it's not cold at all, I'd be trying to look for traces of where the gas may have escaped, possibly around fittings or at the T/X valve that connects to the evaporator otherwise you could waste a lot of money just pouring gas in that will just pour straight back out again.
Might pay to ask on the forum if there's any other air/con repairers near where you live as I get the feeling your present guy is out of his depth; identifying compressor connections is first year apprentice stuff.

Alan S

Andy B · Post by **Andy B** » 29 Jul 2006, 17:50

Thank you for the information, alan s.
The problem (As I understand it?) is the two connections on the end of the compressor have no marks.
When filling with gas do you only need these two connections?
I have also had a quick look and could not see any marks on or near the connections. I did search for a picture of the same type of compressor fitted to my car on the internet in the hope that it would identify the connections but found nothing.
I did begin to worry when I noticed the puzzled look on his face although most fitters have that look when asked to work on a 3.0 V6 XM!
Not too sure what to do, as the car is only worth about a Fiver with a full tank of petrol.
I have spoken to many aircon experts (or so they say) and they all tell me different things. Some say they are not able do it without massive alterations, some say they have a "Drop in gas" and some say don't bother with it as it may not work after it has been re-gassed.
Many tell me the name of the gas that can be used as a Drop in and others tell me the same gas should not be used.
These are the only things I know about Aircon.
1) It cools the inside of the car or should do.
2). It is expensive to fix.
3). Opinions differ between Aircon experts.
4). It would be so simple if someone still had the R12 gas and had a good idea how to re-gas my car.
The XM must be one of the most hated cars ever produced but, I love the car and do not wish to dump it just yet as it has given me six years with little complaint. In return, I have given it six years of neglect and abuse!

Any help will be most welcome.

Andy B

Andy B · Post by **Andy B** » 29 Jul 2006, 17:54

Sorry. Forgot to say, I am in Essex near Southend on Sea (Obviously United Kingdom).
Andy B

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 29 Jul 2006, 18:42

Andy B

Hope our moderators don't jump all over me for this, but try
http://club-xm.com
Then click on "Enter" and select "Forum".
You can post your query as a guest and there are a number of very knowledgeable members who I'm sure can help you.

Derek

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 29 Jul 2006, 21:01

Your forgiven FrenchLeave

Andy, a "drop in" gas or as I have heard some call them "overcoats" are basically gasses that will go straight into a system that was designed and operated on R12. In most cases, they need only an additive added to the oil to compensate for any possible bad side effects the new gas may have on O rings and seals.
A conversion to R134a is a slightly more complicated process with the oil needing to be drained and refilled, all the O rings replacing with neoprene ones and a new receiver dryer fitted. Sometimes, it is also necessary to change the T/X valve, so that way can get a bit expensive.
When the air/con is turned on, does the compressor run? If so, just run it and feel the pipes where they are connected at the compressor. Even if short of gas, they should perform as I stated before with the discharge getting warm - hot and the suction normal - cool.
Access I have found on most Citroens is best from just under the front of the car where it usually sits right in front of you, yet I've seen donkeys with their heads jammed down from the top complaining about the lack of space.

To stand any chance of being successful, do as I said before and check over the entire system for signs of oil seepage around any connections. The T/X valve on a BX is accessed by taking the glovebox out (which is only 5 mimnutes work) but on the XM I think someone told me it was accessable from under the bonnet. If it is, there'll be a cover plate over it; remove that to gain access. It should be easy to find; just follow the refrigeration hoses.
AS far as using a drop in gas goes; yes, it will be OK providing the operator follows the necessary modigications for that particular gas.

Alan S

Andy B · Post by **Andy B** » 29 Jul 2006, 22:07

Thank you again, alan s.
I will take your advice and check out my system as best I can.
Will not be able to do this before next weekend though but will let you know my findings.

Some of the Aircon experts have told me that R134a is a "Drop in gas" and will not damage the system but would they have used the additive?
I must say it makes a change for people to offer help and advice without the urgent need to empty my pockets!

Once again I thank you.

Andy B

Post by **xantia_v6** » 30 Jul 2006, 08:35

I can recommend http://www.ac4cars.co.uk/ . They are a small family-run mobile service based in Gravesend Kent. They converted my E-type Jag to R134A and solved some teething problems after system had been out of use for 20 years. I live well outside their area, but by prior arrangement took my car to their home on a Saturday.

They also do a R12 drop-in gas (I cant remember which one, as there are 2 or 3 different products in this category).

regards,
Mike

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 30 Jul 2006, 11:42

Andy,

134a is definitely not a drop in gas. To use that, the receiver dryer needs to be changed as it has a different medium in it, all the "O" rings have to be changed as they will rot otherwise and the oil needs to be changed to a PAG oil.
Anyone who tells you differently should be avoided like the plague as they are about to flush your wallet out.
The suggestion for a recommended repairer made above is the way I would advise to go as being the most economical in the long term

Alan S

Andy B · Post by **Andy B** » 30 Jul 2006, 12:47

Thank you Mike and Alan s.
I contacted the company and they were very helpful.
Obviously fully booked at the moment but it may be possible to take my car to them next Sunday. They are going to phone me if they can do it sooner or to confirm a Sunday booking. I just hope our summer is not over by then!
The gas they use is RS24, a "Drop in gas" that should need nothing added, but don't quote me on that.

Andy B

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 30 Jul 2006, 14:11

That sounds like the best you've had so far; good luck, let us know how it all goes.

Alan S

Andy B · Post by **Andy B** » 30 Jul 2006, 16:05

I will let you all know the result and thank you.
Andy B

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 01 Aug 2006, 22:08

Hi. Andy B

I also have a 1992 V6 SEi, but it has a blown condenser rad.

After a chat with an Air Con specialist, I learnt that the WHOLE system under the bonnet can be changed to a system from a Series Two car which is already 134a ready. Apparently there is NO NEED to change the evaporater in the car. Just the engine items, IE: Compressor, Dryer, condenser and assosiated pipe work.

I was prompted to this after stripping two Series 2 cars, one which was still gassed up when stripped, so had all good parts to fit.

Good luck with your gas up, how have you got so far?

Regards
citroenxm

Andy B · Post by **Andy B** » 01 Aug 2006, 22:51

Thank you citroenxm.
That sounds like another option but not sure if I could be bothered with the extra work and cost.
If it works with a simple re-gas with the "Drop in gas" I will be happy as that should last me a couple of years and if not I will keep the windows open.
I am now at the stage and age, where I get no enjoyment from working on cars anymore. (I have got more than a little lazy!).
Obviously, if this re-gas fails I would consider this work if the parts were available at a low cost.
Kind regards

Andy B

Andy B · Post by **Andy B** » 06 Aug 2006, 22:09

Hi all
Just letting you know, my aircon is now working as it should be.
These people know what they are doing. No problem for them at all.
A good company, so helpful and got the job done quickly.

Thank you all for the help.

Andy B

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