Newbie Xantia questions
Moderator: RichardW
Newbie Xantia questions
Hi all,
The other day I bought a '96 Xantia SX 2.0 16V estate manual with 87000 miles. Since this is my first Citroen, I have a few technical questions:
- Brakes: I've noticed that when slowing down, the brake pressure smoothly fluctuates, which makes for a very unpredictable stopping distance. Is this normal? If not, what's causing this?
- Spheres: the car has a full service history, including front spheres replacement at 79000 miles and rear spheres replacement at 85000 miles. Since the ride is not very smooth (every little bump on the road is quite noticeable) is there anything else that needs replacing? Apart from regular sphere replacement is there any other maintenance required?
- Suspension height: the rear of the car seems unusually high. Is this normal for Xantia estate? According to service history the rear height corrector seized at around 75000 miles (repaired).
That's all for today - my Haynes workshop manual is on its way, but I would really appreciate your advice.
GB
The other day I bought a '96 Xantia SX 2.0 16V estate manual with 87000 miles. Since this is my first Citroen, I have a few technical questions:
- Brakes: I've noticed that when slowing down, the brake pressure smoothly fluctuates, which makes for a very unpredictable stopping distance. Is this normal? If not, what's causing this?
- Spheres: the car has a full service history, including front spheres replacement at 79000 miles and rear spheres replacement at 85000 miles. Since the ride is not very smooth (every little bump on the road is quite noticeable) is there anything else that needs replacing? Apart from regular sphere replacement is there any other maintenance required?
- Suspension height: the rear of the car seems unusually high. Is this normal for Xantia estate? According to service history the rear height corrector seized at around 75000 miles (repaired).
That's all for today - my Haynes workshop manual is on its way, but I would really appreciate your advice.
GB
Brakes - I cant give any kind of informative answer regarding on this, however with a lot of other 'first time citroen' owners they always are a little concerned regarding the brakes (even my mum and Brother in Law who took possession of the zx and Xantia after me). I would perhaps give it another week maybe to see if you get use to it a little more as Citroens brakes do feel much different and with the Xantia work differently I believe -- However if you feel the car just isnt stopping safely enough then you may need to whip the wheels off and do the necessary checks - discs, pads! --- Another thought, you may need to bleed the brakes and expell any air!
1. With the engine running set the car to highest setting (lever next to the handbrake) give a few minutes after the height has been reached for it to settle and then whip the lever down to the lowest setting, again wait for a good few minutes - Continue to do this several times (this may improve the ride and the brakes)
Spheres - The problem with full service historys is that you dont know if the work was done properly, and that especially goes for if all the work was done at a Citroen Dealer, not as worrying if it was done at a Citroen Specalist but always be a little wary and dont take a service history as 100% perfect car.
1.With the engine running put the car onto highest setting (lever next to the handbrake) and leave to settle for a few minutes, pop the bonnet and look at the float in the middle of the LHM tank which is located at the top right of the engine bay (battery side). The disc should be in between the two red/orange markers to show a correct amount of fluid (Let us know if it is or isnt?)
2. At the same time try sticking your finger into the reservoir and checking the colour of the fluid - best way for me was screwdriver and then wipe it onto some plain kitchen towel. If its anything other than green then a change of LHM fluid is required aswell as cleaning of filters (once again, confirm the colour and then we can take it from there) - mine was an orange colour so god knows what was in there before i bought it.
Those are a few quick ones I can think of!
1. With the engine running set the car to highest setting (lever next to the handbrake) give a few minutes after the height has been reached for it to settle and then whip the lever down to the lowest setting, again wait for a good few minutes - Continue to do this several times (this may improve the ride and the brakes)
Spheres - The problem with full service historys is that you dont know if the work was done properly, and that especially goes for if all the work was done at a Citroen Dealer, not as worrying if it was done at a Citroen Specalist but always be a little wary and dont take a service history as 100% perfect car.
1.With the engine running put the car onto highest setting (lever next to the handbrake) and leave to settle for a few minutes, pop the bonnet and look at the float in the middle of the LHM tank which is located at the top right of the engine bay (battery side). The disc should be in between the two red/orange markers to show a correct amount of fluid (Let us know if it is or isnt?)
2. At the same time try sticking your finger into the reservoir and checking the colour of the fluid - best way for me was screwdriver and then wipe it onto some plain kitchen towel. If its anything other than green then a change of LHM fluid is required aswell as cleaning of filters (once again, confirm the colour and then we can take it from there) - mine was an orange colour so god knows what was in there before i bought it.
Those are a few quick ones I can think of!
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Also - try 'bouncing' each corner of the car with the engine running, you should have about 4" - 6" of movement and it will be much softer at the rear. If you dont have this movement the spheres probably need replacing, if you do, and it only rides hard over small bumps with plenty of movement over large undulations, check the tyres, over inflation, lack of tread or a hard tyre compound will cause this problem. Hydropnumatic suspension although giving a superb ride on normal road surfaces, does tend by nature to transmit high frequency vibrations to the car.
If the back is high in normal setting and only comes down when the lowest setting is selected, it can be a sign of the plastic clip having popped of.
Or the height adjustment being wrong.
Or the height corrector linkages being seized again.
The strange brake feeling can be due to the spring thingy being fitted.
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=11689
But if the LHM is dirty, all sorts of fun problems can emerge.
Usual recommendation: Hydraflush and new LHM.
Søren
Or the height adjustment being wrong.
Or the height corrector linkages being seized again.
The strange brake feeling can be due to the spring thingy being fitted.
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=11689
But if the LHM is dirty, all sorts of fun problems can emerge.
Usual recommendation: Hydraflush and new LHM.
Søren
'93 Xantia 1.8i 8V
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Give your Accumulator Sphere a check by firstly seeing how ofen the pressure regulator "ticks". Anything less than 30s between ticks suggests the sphere is going a bit flat. This can cause the braking symptoms you describe.
Another Accumulator test is to switch off the engine and sit in the boot. The suspension should drop 6 inches or so with your weight and after no more than 30s should rise up to correct the height using stored pressure in the Accumulator. A good one should do this twice before running out of puff.
The brake spring mod referred to by Samtronic is very highly recommended!
Another Accumulator test is to switch off the engine and sit in the boot. The suspension should drop 6 inches or so with your weight and after no more than 30s should rise up to correct the height using stored pressure in the Accumulator. A good one should do this twice before running out of puff.
The brake spring mod referred to by Samtronic is very highly recommended!
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Thanks everyone!
Here's what I did:
The second test - failed. The back did not raise at all.
Thaks again for everyone's help - I really appreciate it.
So, what should my parts shopping list look like? Accumulator sphere, sphere tool, LHM fluid, what else?
Cheers,
GB
Here's what I did:
Set to high - OK. Set to low - OK. Set to high again - back failed to raise. Set to normal - OKmezuk04 wrote: 1. With the engine running set the car to highest setting (lever next to the handbrake) give a few minutes after the height has been reached for it to settle and then whip the lever down to the lowest setting, again wait for a good few minutes - Continue to do this several times (this may improve the ride and the brakes)
Checked the LHM level - too high, indicator way above both markers at all times.mezuk04 wrote: 1.With the engine running put the car onto highest setting (lever next to the handbrake) and leave to settle for a few minutes, pop the bonnet and look at the float in the middle of the LHM tank which is located at the top right of the engine bay (battery side). The disc should be in between the two red/orange markers to show a correct amount of fluid (Let us know if it is or isnt?)
LHM green with a slight hint of brown.mezuk04 wrote: 2. At the same time try sticking your finger into the reservoir and checking the colour of the fluid - best way for me was screwdriver and then wipe it onto some plain kitchen towel. If its anything other than green then a change of LHM fluid is required aswell as cleaning of filters (once again, confirm the colour and then we can take it from there) - mine was an orange colour so god knows what was in there before i bought it.
Checked all corners - around 6" of movement, front much lighter than back.Peter.N. wrote: Also - try 'bouncing' each corner of the car with the engine running, you should have about 4" - 6" of movement and it will be much softer at the rear.
Will check all of the above once my Haynes manual arrives.samtronic wrote: If the back is high in normal setting and only comes down when the lowest setting is selected, it can be a sign of the plastic clip having popped of.
Or the height adjustment being wrong.
Or the height corrector linkages being seized again.
Tick? Do you mean the compressor on the drivers side? I can hear that turning on and off every 15-20 seconds.citrojim wrote: Give your Accumulator Sphere a check by firstly seeing how ofen the pressure regulator "ticks". Anything less than 30s between ticks suggests the sphere is going a bit flat. This can cause the braking symptoms you describe.
Another Accumulator test is to switch off the engine and sit in the boot. The suspension should drop 6 inches or so with your weight and after no more than 30s should rise up to correct the height using stored pressure in the Accumulator. A good one should do this twice before running out of puff.
The second test - failed. The back did not raise at all.
Thaks again for everyone's help - I really appreciate it.
So, what should my parts shopping list look like? Accumulator sphere, sphere tool, LHM fluid, what else?
Cheers,
GB
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Re: Newbie Xantia questions
It could be that the rear has been set correctly after the height corrector was replaced and the front is sitting slightly low.GB wrote: - Suspension height: the rear of the car seems unusually high. Is this normal for Xantia estate? According to service history the rear height corrector seized at around 75000 miles (repaired).
if the front is way softer than the back then maybe you got the wrong ones somewhere... could you check the part numbers on the spheres? some here will look them and confirm if they are the correct ones.
what people mean by the accumuator check is... it's an additional sphere there to provide a backup pressure to the system so you can brake safely if the pump fails, it also smooths out any fluctuations in the system during high demand, problem is... if this sphere fails, it will leak nitrogen (slowly of course.... called diffusion) into the system and this means air in the system... when you have air in the system thats when you can have a bad ride and bad brakes. 15 to 20 seconds between clicks is not so good, i'd recommend replacing it, it's the sphere just before the radiator pointing towards the drivers side.
it would be a good idea to put the lhm cleaning fluid in the system too, this is called hydraflush and can be bought for £15 from gsf car parts, you replace the old dirty lhm with this and it cleans the inside of the hydraulic system for about a 1000 miles and you then drain it again and put in new LHM,
it would be wise to bleed the brakes too, on citroens you can feed a pipe from the bleed nipples back to the lhm resevoir, it's easy peazy, there is a correct sequence to this, i can't recall it now but someone will let you know, also of importance is to bleed the back brakes, the back brakes are closely related to the suspension (weight dependant brakes and self leveling suspension).
but citrobeotics is the thing to do, many posts here about it.
good luck
what people mean by the accumuator check is... it's an additional sphere there to provide a backup pressure to the system so you can brake safely if the pump fails, it also smooths out any fluctuations in the system during high demand, problem is... if this sphere fails, it will leak nitrogen (slowly of course.... called diffusion) into the system and this means air in the system... when you have air in the system thats when you can have a bad ride and bad brakes. 15 to 20 seconds between clicks is not so good, i'd recommend replacing it, it's the sphere just before the radiator pointing towards the drivers side.
it would be a good idea to put the lhm cleaning fluid in the system too, this is called hydraflush and can be bought for £15 from gsf car parts, you replace the old dirty lhm with this and it cleans the inside of the hydraulic system for about a 1000 miles and you then drain it again and put in new LHM,
it would be wise to bleed the brakes too, on citroens you can feed a pipe from the bleed nipples back to the lhm resevoir, it's easy peazy, there is a correct sequence to this, i can't recall it now but someone will let you know, also of importance is to bleed the back brakes, the back brakes are closely related to the suspension (weight dependant brakes and self leveling suspension).
but citrobeotics is the thing to do, many posts here about it.
good luck
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Hi GB,
The Haynes manual (or Book of Lies - BoL as we call it on here) is very sketchy on the whole subject of hydraulics, the one area that is pretty unique they really gloss over.
to really understand the subject download and read this:
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/guide/guide.php
It is excellent and it'll tell you most of what you'll need to know. Anything more, ask on here!
Print it and take it to bed for a bit of light reading...
Your regulator tick rate is fine by the way..
The Haynes manual (or Book of Lies - BoL as we call it on here) is very sketchy on the whole subject of hydraulics, the one area that is pretty unique they really gloss over.
to really understand the subject download and read this:
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/guide/guide.php
It is excellent and it'll tell you most of what you'll need to know. Anything more, ask on here!
Print it and take it to bed for a bit of light reading...
Your regulator tick rate is fine by the way..
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Of the top of my head:
It could be that the you got a duff accumulator.
Or the ball(s) in the regulator needs reseating.
Or air in the system. Probably the pipe from the LHM container to the pump. It often gets a bit loose at the pump or crack and let air in (remember, it is on the sucking side of the pump, thus the pressure is lower than the pressure of the surrounding air).
Søren
It could be that the you got a duff accumulator.
Or the ball(s) in the regulator needs reseating.
Or air in the system. Probably the pipe from the LHM container to the pump. It often gets a bit loose at the pump or crack and let air in (remember, it is on the sucking side of the pump, thus the pressure is lower than the pressure of the surrounding air).
Søren
'93 Xantia 1.8i 8V