MORE SUSPENSION QUESTIONS :) xantia turbo diesel saloon

MATTT · Post by **MATTT** » 21 Jul 2006, 09:34

Only just purchased this so im on a steep learning curve!

just joined up and been reading through all the posts about suspension faults!
mines got the sport and normal setting its a 1995 saloon turbo diesel
just replaced the turbo bit of a trial that was,
its all running and its clicks every 4-5 secs or so
suspension goes up ok,but occasionally the rear doesnt unless you select high then back to normal,also the rear looks every so slightly low when up but not by much about 20mm maybe
bit confused about which sphere to change for the clicking,the pipe that jumps when it clicks goes to the sphere at the front right by the radiator,dont know what this one is called or if this is the faulty one or an effect from something else,what the name of it so i can look it up on euro or g and s
or is the one fixed to the engine block itself with the bleed screw causing this?
i havent checked the rear height lever that seems to cause a lot of problems by reading through lots of posts last night yet
thanks
Matt

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 21 Jul 2006, 10:24

The first thing to do would be to replace the "Accumulator Sphere" as this may lessen the other problems you are having and as it seems you are aware 4-5 secs certainly warrants a new one.

Try gsfcarparts.com - the sphere is £18.65 +VAT +P&P and is the same for all Xantias (as I can tell from the order book - two types in total for the whole range of cars).

This sphere is located right in front of the radiator, roughly central. Others will be able to explain the position more precisely in terms of if its attached to the engine block

To remove -
start the car and wait a couple of minutes.
Put on lowest setting and wait a couple of minutes.
Turn engine off and loosen the pressure screw (half a turn only or you will lose the ball) near to the accumulator sphere and then tighten up again. Crack off the old sphere and put the new seal into the actual block end (not the sphere itself).
Screw in new sphere and start engine.

I believe thats about it, then see what suspension woes you still have afterwards.

The only real tricky job is getting the sphere off.

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 21 Jul 2006, 10:26

Hi Matt.

The constant ticking/clicking, is normally the main accumulator sphere.

Think of the main accumulator as the hydraulic battery and all will make sense.

The battery on your car holds the reserve electronic charge to run the electrical system, when the voltage drops, the voltage regulator will cut in to allow the alternator to charge.

Much the same happens with the hydraulics, but instead of volts, it's pressure.

When you start the engine the hydraulic pump will charge the system to 175- When the car has settled and you start to use the hydraulics, the pressure will be sent from the accumulator sphere (battery) to wherever it's needed, as the pressure in the accumulator drops (145-) the regulator will shift the spool valve against the spring pressure inside causing the pump to charge the accumulator back up again.

So the pressure in the system, whilst the engine is running will allways be between 140- and 175-

The clicking noise is the cut out at 175- this will happen more often as the reserve pressure in the sphere drops, this sphere is charged to 62- when new, they loose pressure through a procces called molecular diffusion, a schoolboy physics lesson in Grahams law will tell you about this if you are bored enough to google it!!!

Molecular diffusion accounts for approx 15- of pressure drop per year in a accumulator sphere (about 10- for the fronts and 5- per year for the rear) So after about 4 years the main accumulator will have about bugger all left in it, and will be clicking away like a cricket on heat.

Lots have been said about testing this sphere, ie jumping in the boot with the engine off etc, but the best way is to start the engine and select high, when the car has settled, leave it running and press the brake pedal hard about once every 2 seconds, on a new car you would have got about 30 pushes befor the click! On a older car with a bit of leak back etc and a decent main accumulator I would expect to get about 15 - 20 pushes before the click, it goes without saying the less pushes, the less pressure in the main accumulator

But, If the car is older than 3 years old and the main accumulator has not been changed, then as sure as eggs is eggs, it will need doing.

The trick with all spheres is to change them before they are completly flat. this way you can use them again (recharge) and save cash.

If you are keeping this car, or any Citroen you will find that your best friends will be Pleiades in Cambridgeshire. I have used Pleiades parts, spheres, pumps, height correctors etc for years and find it a brilliant service.

Regards
Slim

MATTT · Post by **MATTT** » 21 Jul 2006, 11:45

thanks for the quick replies

just before i get oily again

, the accumulator sphere is as you say behind the radiator,is it the one actually attached to the engine block with the 12mm drain screw on it?
i dont want to change the wrong one

the one right at the front of the car almost touching the rad but slightly over to one side nearer to the passenger side im assuming this is the anti sink sphere?
thanks
Matt

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 21 Jul 2006, 12:10

Yepp, the 12mm bolt identifies it - and its that bolt you loosen a MAX of 1 turn!

Its not a drain bolt, its a pressure relief bolt and IT SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED!

//NiSk

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 21 Jul 2006, 12:21

I wasnt far off then, I always add my little disclaimers to avoid getting a telling off

f00lzz · Post by **f00lzz** » 21 Jul 2006, 17:44

slim123 wrote:Hi Matt.

The constant ticking/clicking, is normally the main accumulator sphere.

So after about 4 years the main accumulator will have about bugger all left in it, and will be clicking away like a cricket on heat.

On a older car with a bit of leak back etc and a decent main accumulator I would expect to get about 15 - 20 pushes before the click, it goes without saying the less pushes, the less pressure in the main accumulator

But, If the car is older than 3 years old and the main accumulator has not been changed, then as sure as eggs is eggs, it will need doing.

Regards
Slim

Hi Slim. I have been experiencing 'fast clicking' which I had assumed was from the accumulator sphere or regulator...... Where is the main accumulator???

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 21 Jul 2006, 17:57

The main accumulator sphere is located on the regulator, if you open the bonnet and look down between the engine and the radiator, you will see it.
The sphere looks the same as a suspension sphere, but it aint, the main accumulator has a heigher pre charge pressure (62-) and there is no damper in the neck.

To remove.

Start up and select high.
Switch off and place some axle stands under the front.
Lossen thr regulator bleed screw by about 2 turns. (no need to turn any further and dont take it out)
Using a sutable tool (I use a band wrench) undo the sphere.
You will only need the wrench for the first slight turn, then it will come off by hand.
Remove the old "O"ring from the neck of the regulator.

Replacing is a simple oppisite read!! but dont forget the "O"ring, put this in to the regulator neck and then screw in the sphere.

When finished, start the engine and run for about 2 mins to curculate the system, then tighten the bleed screw

Job done.

On deisel cars you will have to remove the shield from below the engine to gain access.

Regards
Slim

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 Jul 2006, 18:18

what everyone seems to be forgetting is once you have fitted the new seal which is not an O ring as it is made from square section,you MUST dip you finger into some clean LHM and smear it on the seal surface,if you dont when you screw the sphere into place you will damage the seal and it will leak
regards malcolm

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 21 Jul 2006, 18:24

Sorry but even though suare in section, it is still an "O" ring.

Simply refered to as a square section "O" ring.

Regards
Slim

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 Jul 2006, 18:29

oooooh!! in the garage trade an O ring is a round section,but the main point i was making is to lubricate the surface of the seal
regards malcolm

f00lzz · Post by **f00lzz** » 21 Jul 2006, 19:56

slim123 wrote:The main accumulator sphere is located on the regulator, if you open the bonnet and look down between the engine and the radiator, you will see it.
The sphere looks the same as a suspension sphere, but it aint, the main accumulator has a heigher pre charge pressure (62-) and there is no damper in the neck.

Regards
Slim

I'm confused! If that is the main accumulator sphere.... where is the accumulator sphere??

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 Jul 2006, 20:52

the acumalater sphere is screwed onto the presure regulater which is bolted to the front of the gear box where it joins the engine
regard malcolm

deian · Post by **deian** » 21 Jul 2006, 21:09

the accumualtor sphere everyone is referring to and the one you want in this post IS the main accumulator sphere.

You also have the anti sink sphere in the back which also acts as an accumulator sphere for the back brakes. But don't worry about that for this post.

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 21 Jul 2006, 22:20

All spheres are accumulators, wether they are working the hydraulics on a combine havester or suspending your Citroen, they come in all shapes and sizes.

We all refer to the accumulators on a Citroen as "spheres" because of their shape!

What you have on a typical Xantia is, 2 x front suspension spheres, 2 x rear suspension spheres, 1 x (main) accumulator sphere and 1 x anti sink sphere.

If you have the VSX model this will have the same but and extra front suspension sphere (front suspension accumulator) and an extra rear suspension sphere (rear suspension accumulator)

If you opt for the all shooting and dancing Active, then you will have all as above plus a front active ride sphere and a rear active ride sphere.

The sphere that we all refer too as the main accumulator is also refered to as the accumulator sphere.

Hope this explains something!!!

Regards
Slim

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MORE SUSPENSION QUESTIONS :) xantia turbo diesel saloon

MORE SUSPENSION QUESTIONS :) xantia turbo diesel saloon

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