Obtaining Xantia Hydraulic pump seals?

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 13 Jul 2006, 02:25

Hi All,

Once again I'm having a really hard time locating Citroen parts over here in NZ....

Can someone please tell me if there is indeed a "seal kit" for the Hydraulic pumps in Xantia's ? This is for a 1997 2 output pump used on the 2.0i 8 valve petrol engine.

I'm getting conflicting stories from different suppliers over here... one is saying that Citroen (NZ) don't even supply a seal kit, that there is only "one" seal available for the pump, (when the pump itself has half a dozen seals) and another supplier says the seals are available but is mucking me around and over 6 weeks later still hasn't supplied anything.

Meanwhile the pump has an intermitant suction leak which is pumping air bubbles into the system...

If the seals are available in the UK (and in fact even exist) then would some kind soul with a paypal account be interested in sending me some over....?

(or at the very least can someone confirm the existance of a seal kit and what it contains...)

Thanks guys..

Regards,
Simon

Footnote: is there anyone on this forum in NZ who has found a good Citroen parts supplier over here?

Unread post by **RichardW** » 13 Jul 2006, 07:44

Simon,

Picture of the pump here from Citroen-pr.net:

HP Pumps

The top one is for everything except V6, which the bottom is for (although there are different part Nos for different engines for the pump in total, the seals are common).

The seal items have part Nos and costs as follows:

Item 3 - 402686 (£2.03)
Item 4 - 402687 (£1.36) - doesn't say if this is per seal, or a 'set' of 3 - I expect this is a single seal.
Item 5 - 402688 (£1.06)

It's possible that you will only be able to buy the seals in packs of 5 or 10. Not sure from the picture (not having looked at the pump in any great detail!) which port is which.

I expect I can order and send to NZ if you want!

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 13 Jul 2006, 08:46

i belive you are right Richard as im sure when i bought some seals a while ago they where only supplied in packs of 5,Simon if you look on citroen-pr.net you will get all the info you need,i would have thought that you could order anything anywhere on the plannet from citroen with the corect part numbers
regards malcolm

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 13 Jul 2006, 10:40

RichardW wrote:Simon,

Picture of the pump here from Citroen-pr.net:

HP Pumps

The top one is for everything except V6, which the bottom is for (although there are different part Nos for different engines for the pump in total, the seals are common).

The seal items have part Nos and costs as follows:

Item 3 - 402686 (£2.03)
Item 4 - 402687 (£1.36) - doesn't say if this is per seal, or a 'set' of 3 - I expect this is a single seal.
Item 5 - 402688 (£1.06)

Hi Richard,

Hmm...

All those seals are on the pressure output side of the pump, I need seals for the input/suction side

(I'm trying to fix a suspected suction leak drawing in air)

There are 2 seals on the suction side which could potentially draw in air, one on the pulley shaft, and one square section one at the left end of the pump housing...does that mean they're not available ??

See the following page for some pictures: (sadly not in english!)

http://www.citroenthai.org/pump62B.htm

In the picture labeled PIC#2-02, you can see a small square section (?) seal labeled A, this seals between the pulley end plate and the middle section, and is on the input side of the pump.

The shaft seal is not shown in any of those pictures but is shown in a cutaway drawing I have in a Citroen manual.

There is another square section seal shown in those pictures that isn't listed on the pr-net diagram either.

The input tube itself is also a possible leak source if its not sealing where its pressed into the housing...

It's possible that you will only be able to buy the seals in packs of 5 or 10. Not sure from the picture (not having looked at the pump in any great detail!) which port is which.

I expect I can order and send to NZ if you want!

Thanks for the offer... if I can work out whether those seals will help me or not I'll get back to you.

Regards,
Simon

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 13 Jul 2006, 10:45

citronut wrote:i belive you are right Richard as im sure when i bought some seals a while ago they where only supplied in packs of 5,Simon if you look on citroen-pr.net you will get all the info you need,

Hi malcolm,

Last time I checked pr.net wouldn't let me register as New Zealand isn't one of the "allowed" countries on the site, and I didn't have the necessary fake address details of someone in the UK to register

i would have thought that you could order anything anywhere on the plannet from citroen with the corect part numbers
regards malcolm

You obviously havn't been down here then!

I couldn't even order a height corrector plastic linkage new here, after 3 weeks of mucking me around, "not available seperately from a complete height corrector assembly" according to the main Citroen agents!

So I get someone from the UK to send me a couple over for a fraction of the price.

Citroen parts supplies have appaulingly bad service down here...and if I didn't like the damn cars so much it would be enough to put me off having one....

(I'm even having hassles now getting a replacement engine oil dipstick...)

I've rung up 5 times over a period of a month now chasing up these seals and I still don't have a solid answer out of them, and they never ring me back...(yes I am getting frustrated...this happens every time I try to get something out of them

)

Regards,
Simon

Unread post by **alan s** » 13 Jul 2006, 11:07

Thought about contacting these guys?

http://www.citroen-hydraulics.com/

They have a branch here in Oz.

Alan S

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 13 Jul 2006, 13:34

Mandrake wrote:pr.net wouldn't let me register as New Zealand isn't one of the "allowed" countries on the site, and I didn't have the necessary fake address details of someone in the UK to register

That can be arranged,

as I did, because Australia isn’t listed for PR-Net either.
Only European countries and Argentina are listed for it.

Despite that, the local Citroën dealer still has it, but he’s so monumentally incompetent that he doesn’t know how to use it.

The first page of PR-Net has the option to enter the car’s VIN number, and then the listings for that car come in.
Lower down the page, you can search by part number, text or icon.
When I went to get the garden-variety 1109N3 oil filter, the guy said that he needed the car’s VIN number, even though the filters were on the shelf under our noses.

He went belly up since,

and a new mob took over.
I’ll PM you my PR-Net log-in numbers.

dnsey · Unread post by **dnsey** » 13 Jul 2006, 13:50

Do you have a local supplier of hydraulic fittings, etc?
Despite all the warnings, AFAIK most normal O-rings and the like are compatible with LHM (the shop would no doubt be able to check anyway), so you might be able to get something to fit which isn't made specifically for the job.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 13 Jul 2006, 14:01

i would have thought if that seal has or face plate has not been disturbed it should not leak,also if you have citroen part numbers your agent should be able to supply the parts
regards malcolm

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 13 Jul 2006, 15:04

Is the shaft seal a normal - type seal ? - It may be worth contacting a specialist bearing supplier - as it may be a standard product.

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 16 Jul 2006, 10:52

Clogzz wrote: That can be arranged, as I did, because Australia isn’t listed for PR-Net either.
Only European countries and Argentina are listed for it.
Despite that, the local Citroën dealer still has it, but he’s so monumentally incompetent that he doesn’t know how to use it.
The first page of PR-Net has the option to enter the car’s VIN number, and then the listings for that car come in.
Lower down the page, you can search by part number, text or icon.
When I went to get the garden-variety 1109N3 oil filter, the guy said that he needed the car’s VIN number, even though the filters were on the shelf under our noses.
He went belly up since, and a new mob took over.
I’ll PM you my PR-Net log-in numbers.

Clogzz to the rescue again

Thanks mate, that works brilliantly....it even accepts the VIN number of my car.... now at least I know what parts exist even if I can't get them

Actually, I have a couple of leads...

Regards,
Simon

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 16 Jul 2006, 10:56

dnsey wrote:Do you have a local supplier of hydraulic fittings, etc?
Despite all the warnings, AFAIK most normal O-rings and the like are compatible with LHM (the shop would no doubt be able to check anyway), so you might be able to get something to fit which isn't made specifically for the job.

Yes,

That was my initial idea, but discovering the new price in NZ for a pump is $2000 (no kidding!) and the difficulty in getting the seals, I'm a bit wary of taking the pump apart and THEN finding what seals I need, and discovering one key seal isn't available from local engineering sources...I could potentially have the car off the road for weeks if I got unlucky....

If I had a spare pump I wouldn't hesistate.

So I decided to try and get as many of the seals available for it before taking it apart, and any further seals I might need I'll have to try and obtain from normal engineering sources...

Regards,
Simon

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 16 Jul 2006, 10:59

citronut wrote:i would have thought if that seal has or face plate has not been disturbed it should not leak,

So things never break down on there own ?

There is a leak there somewhere... its just a matter of finding it... I can think of many different things that could have gone wrong - just one example is that the car had something other than LHM in the hydraulic system when I got it... who knows whether the other stuff could have "eaten" one of the seals...

And then there is normal wear and tear, heat cycling etc...

also if you have citroen part numbers your agent should be able to supply the parts
regards malcolm

Not if they don't stock them and can't be bothered ordering them in.

Regards,
Simon

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 16 Jul 2006, 11:02

jeremy wrote:Is the shaft seal a normal - type seal ? - It may be worth contacting a specialist bearing supplier - as it may be a standard product.

Hi Jeremy,

My thoughts too, unfortunately I don't know what the seal on the shaft is until after the fact... and to get it out requires not only stripping the pump but also using a 10 ton press to press the pulley off the shaft. (And put it back later)

Luckily I have someone who can do this, but once I go down that road I better be pretty certain that I can get an appropriate seal....

If I find another obvious source of leakage first I'm inclined to fix that (and replace all the easily replaced seals) retest the pump and leave the shaft seal as a last resort.

Regards,
Simon

Unread post by **alan s** » 16 Jul 2006, 11:26

Simon,

From someone who had to press pulleys off shafts as part of my profession, I can assure you that if you use a press as indicated, the pulley will fall off when put back into service.

Anything that is shrunk on like that, is done that way for a reason and you will need to use heat on the pulley and a moderate amount of force to remove it and definitely heat and the same moderate amount of force to refit otherwise a fit such as that is useless in the first instance and hence is not used.

Alan S