ESP
Moderator: RichardW
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- Posts: 1260
- Joined: 01 May 2004, 19:49
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars: Current - Slightly modified 2016 Pug 308 Puretech 130 Allure
Past:
2003 - 206 GLX TU3JP & 206 SE ET3JP4
1995 - 405 Executive XU10J2
1996 - 406 GLX XU10J4R
1994 - 405 GTX XU10J2 - x 1
ESP
Hi
While my 206 is having a new door fitted I have been given a 1.4 Golf mk 5 to drive around in.
This is the first car ive driven with ESP fitted & I must say im impressed so far with it.
The system worked lovely as I provoked it going round a roundabout, Light flashed, power cut, brakes applied & the car came back on line, all under in half a second each time.
Now before anyone moans the roundabout was empty & I provoke the system on purpose to see what would happen if it cut in if I had to swerve in an emergency.
Im highly impressed with the ESP system, In everyday driving it should never have to cut in, But if that unforeseen obstacle appears in front of you the ESP system could well save your life.
While my 206 is having a new door fitted I have been given a 1.4 Golf mk 5 to drive around in.
This is the first car ive driven with ESP fitted & I must say im impressed so far with it.
The system worked lovely as I provoked it going round a roundabout, Light flashed, power cut, brakes applied & the car came back on line, all under in half a second each time.
Now before anyone moans the roundabout was empty & I provoke the system on purpose to see what would happen if it cut in if I had to swerve in an emergency.
Im highly impressed with the ESP system, In everyday driving it should never have to cut in, But if that unforeseen obstacle appears in front of you the ESP system could well save your life.
Where I live it would also save the deers life, too, perhaps!! No doubt there will be people saying it's unnessesary, you should be paying attention, good drivers don't need it, etc,etc..... but having seen these animals leap literally straight through the hedge directly in front of me I've been very lucky to avoid them and avoid the ditch/tree as well............. and children act in a similar manner-in these situations every little bit extra helps!!the ESP system could well save your life.
My Vitesse has it's own crude version of ESP- it's called TS and kicks in when the swing axle get lairy: Twitchy Sphincter....... But Golfs aren't renowned for having particularly poor handling- how far did you have to push it? It must have taken a fair bit of provocation!!
I used to drive a car with ESP - it's great but there are two things to consider in an emergency
Everyone is told "If your car has ABS - stamp on the brakes and steer if needed until you stop."
However, ESP works mainly by applying individual brakes - it only applies the brakes - it doesn't regulate the pressure ( ABS does that )
So, in an emergency stop situation, on an icy road, you are actually far better off braking as much as you can, then coming off ALL the pedals, and steering. That way, the ESP can do it's job by applying diagionally oposite brakes to help you steer. If you already have all four brakes on, there's nothing ESP can do except flash it's useful "overcooked it" light at you.
Mat.
Everyone is told "If your car has ABS - stamp on the brakes and steer if needed until you stop."
However, ESP works mainly by applying individual brakes - it only applies the brakes - it doesn't regulate the pressure ( ABS does that )
So, in an emergency stop situation, on an icy road, you are actually far better off braking as much as you can, then coming off ALL the pedals, and steering. That way, the ESP can do it's job by applying diagionally oposite brakes to help you steer. If you already have all four brakes on, there's nothing ESP can do except flash it's useful "overcooked it" light at you.
Mat.
405 STi Auto Est
Cruise, Aircon, Sunroof
Cruise, Aircon, Sunroof
-
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: 01 May 2004, 19:49
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars: Current - Slightly modified 2016 Pug 308 Puretech 130 Allure
Past:
2003 - 206 GLX TU3JP & 206 SE ET3JP4
1995 - 405 Executive XU10J2
1996 - 406 GLX XU10J4R
1994 - 405 GTX XU10J2 - x 1
For a 1.4 its quick, Put it next to a 1.4 306 & it would urinate all over it.RichardW wrote:ESP on a 1.4 Golf....
Or is that the extra sensory perception you need to be able to overtake someone in such an underpowered barge 8)
I thought it was a 1.6 till I checked.
ESP has been standard fit on the Golf since the mk 4 version.
-
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: 01 May 2004, 19:49
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars: Current - Slightly modified 2016 Pug 308 Puretech 130 Allure
Past:
2003 - 206 GLX TU3JP & 206 SE ET3JP4
1995 - 405 Executive XU10J2
1996 - 406 GLX XU10J4R
1994 - 405 GTX XU10J2 - x 1
I did take a bit of provocation & tyre squeal to get the ESP to cut in, Attacking the roundabout at speed at working the steering wheel hard seemed to do the trickbxbodger wrote:Where I live it would also save the deers life, too, perhaps!! No doubt there will be people saying it's unnessesary, you should be paying attention, good drivers don't need it, etc,etc..... but having seen these animals leap literally straight through the hedge directly in front of me I've been very lucky to avoid them and avoid the ditch/tree as well............. and children act in a similar manner-in these situations every little bit extra helps!!the ESP system could well save your life.
My Vitesse has it's own crude version of ESP- it's called TS and kicks in when the swing axle get lairy: Twitchy Sphincter....... But Golfs aren't renowned for having particularly poor handling- how far did you have to push it? It must have taken a fair bit of provocation!!
A wet roundabout is even better - I had loads of fun belting around one leaving others standing ( ESP wasn't as common as it is now ). However, you have to be carefull not to get to the limit of ESP, 'cos when it looses it, you know about it !
I managed to get it sideways off a local roundabout - dry conditions but there was some diesel on the exit. Ended up at 90 degrees to the road right on the crest of a hill ( the exit road went down hill )
I managed to get it sideways off a local roundabout - dry conditions but there was some diesel on the exit. Ended up at 90 degrees to the road right on the crest of a hill ( the exit road went down hill )
405 STi Auto Est
Cruise, Aircon, Sunroof
Cruise, Aircon, Sunroof
It's funny how some people ( myself included ) seem to forget that you can't change the laws of physics, and the electronics will only let you get nearer the edge of the limits...
Take ABS as an example, sometimes I get into a mindset "I've got ABS, I can stop quicker, therefore I can drive closer or faster"
Firstly, this isn't the case, and secondly, nearly every new car on the road now has ABS so the playing field ( that didn't exist anyway ) has well and truely been leveled - so you can't stop faster etc... a false sense of security.
What happens when you are relying on ABS or ESP, and right at that critical moment, a fuse blows, or an ABS sensor fails ( taking out both ABS and ESP because it uses the ABS sensors )
As I said, the best way ( and safest way ) to test ESP is on a wet roundabout ( safest because you're going faster than most others ! ), and it's fun on ice - I can speak from experience of that - I hit some black ice at a corner on the exit from a supermarket - only doing about 20. ESP tried to turn the corner, I just clipped the kerb trashing an alloy and the front strut...
Take ABS as an example, sometimes I get into a mindset "I've got ABS, I can stop quicker, therefore I can drive closer or faster"
Firstly, this isn't the case, and secondly, nearly every new car on the road now has ABS so the playing field ( that didn't exist anyway ) has well and truely been leveled - so you can't stop faster etc... a false sense of security.
What happens when you are relying on ABS or ESP, and right at that critical moment, a fuse blows, or an ABS sensor fails ( taking out both ABS and ESP because it uses the ABS sensors )
As I said, the best way ( and safest way ) to test ESP is on a wet roundabout ( safest because you're going faster than most others ! ), and it's fun on ice - I can speak from experience of that - I hit some black ice at a corner on the exit from a supermarket - only doing about 20. ESP tried to turn the corner, I just clipped the kerb trashing an alloy and the front strut...
405 STi Auto Est
Cruise, Aircon, Sunroof
Cruise, Aircon, Sunroof
- fastandfurryous
- Posts: 1388
- Joined: 07 Jul 2004, 17:57
- Location: On the road, travelling at high speed. Meep Meep.
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- x 4
I still maintain that ABS and ESP are bad, bad news for road safety.
The problem is that people who drive safely in the first place are unlikely ever in their entire life to actually need either system. Conversely, utter tossers who drive dangerously in the first place will be able to push their car further and harder than before.
Since these dangerous drivers are the ones most likely to cause crashes, the crashes they cause will increase dramatically in severity.
Stop messing about with the car, and introduce driver re-testing.
Except that will never happen, as if you were to re-test all drivers periodically, you'd remove at least 30% of all drivers from the road, and hence the Government would loose hundereds of millions of pounds in revenue every year. (irrespective of the fact that you'd save that same amount of money in terms of reduced load on hospitals, emergency services, health service, road maintanence, etc.etc.etc)
neither the government nor the car manufacturers actually care about road safety.... they just want your money.
/rant
The problem is that people who drive safely in the first place are unlikely ever in their entire life to actually need either system. Conversely, utter tossers who drive dangerously in the first place will be able to push their car further and harder than before.
Since these dangerous drivers are the ones most likely to cause crashes, the crashes they cause will increase dramatically in severity.
Stop messing about with the car, and introduce driver re-testing.
Except that will never happen, as if you were to re-test all drivers periodically, you'd remove at least 30% of all drivers from the road, and hence the Government would loose hundereds of millions of pounds in revenue every year. (irrespective of the fact that you'd save that same amount of money in terms of reduced load on hospitals, emergency services, health service, road maintanence, etc.etc.etc)
neither the government nor the car manufacturers actually care about road safety.... they just want your money.
/rant
This is not a signature.
- fastandfurryous
- Posts: 1388
- Joined: 07 Jul 2004, 17:57
- Location: On the road, travelling at high speed. Meep Meep.
- My Cars:
- x 4
Actually, several studies in the states have shown that just about all "safety" equipment on cars has meant that crashes do occur at higher speeds, and that the severity of crashes has increased markedly.
I agree ABSOLUTELY that IF the fitting of safety equipment to cars didn't affect the way the driver drives, then it would be a good idea.
Unfortunately that's not true.
ABS and ESP are treating the symptoms, not the problem.
I agree ABSOLUTELY that IF the fitting of safety equipment to cars didn't affect the way the driver drives, then it would be a good idea.
Unfortunately that's not true.
ABS and ESP are treating the symptoms, not the problem.
This is not a signature.
Common sense really, newer cars will cruise at higher speeds than older ones and being newer they will generally have better safety devices.fastandfurryous wrote:Actually, several studies in the states have shown that just about all "safety" equipment on cars has meant that crashes do occur at higher speeds, and that the severity of crashes has increased markedly.
I agree ABSOLUTELY that IF the fitting of safety equipment to cars didn't affect the way the driver drives, then it would be a good idea.
Unfortunately that's not true.
ABS and ESP are treating the symptoms, not the problem.
Consequently if you have an accident now chances are you'll be going faster.
I will not consider buying a car that has not got ABS, Airbags oh and aircon etc and yes that might sound silly but then what price do you put on your family?
Mind you didn't mercedes have to sort out the A class suspention electronically?
Howie
2006 Fiat Idea Dynamic 1.3 Multijet
2010 Renault Laguna Dynamique tom tom 2.0 DCI 130
C5 VTR 2l 8v HDI Estate 112000 miles gone
Kia Rio 2007 1.5 CRDI 62,000 miles gone
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1999 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6 V8 151,000 miles gone
2006 Fiat Idea Dynamic 1.3 Multijet
2010 Renault Laguna Dynamique tom tom 2.0 DCI 130
C5 VTR 2l 8v HDI Estate 112000 miles gone
Kia Rio 2007 1.5 CRDI 62,000 miles gone
2001 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 170,000 miles gone
1999 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6 V8 151,000 miles gone