got new front tyres... wow

deian · Post by **deian** » 20 Jun 2006, 21:27

what a difference! my old tyres were stupid remoulds the other guy put on it to make it pass the MOT before selling it, the passenger side tyre had four punctures in it at one go, i got that fixed with a tube (not allowed i know, but i was skint and it was a cheap fix for the time), last saturday the same tyre has another stupid puncture, so i got new tyres....

They are only normal tyres, i wanted to go for Michelins, but they were so expensive from where i had to go, so i went for Marangoni Vantos, £48.50 each, they guy that sold them to me ordered them for his old volvos he races, and swears by them, he says they have amazing grip especially in the wet, my dad is happy with them too.

Since putting them on the car is a LOT quiter and the suspension is a lot smoother when i complained about the harshness.

Anyone else come across these tyres?

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 20 Jun 2006, 22:00

WARNING: Your rear tyres need to be at least as good as your front ones, if they are not you run the risk of being overtaken by the rear of your own car.

Never put new tyre on the front, allways put them on the rear, and especially so if the new ones are better quality than whats allready on the rear.

Dave

deian · Post by **deian** » 20 Jun 2006, 22:21

Hi

The rear ones still have loads of tread left and they are a decent Avon brand and have not worn down AT ALL since i've had the car, so no panic there. Although i may swap the front with the back, I'll see how the Marangoni's wear down first, I have a feeling they are made quite soft to get all that grip, so may wear down pretty quick.

Of course front wheel drive cars will have front tyres being eaten alive compared to the rear tyres which just drag along, the front wheels are being driven, steered, more weight on them and are braked harded than then back.

Front wheel drive cars also ("in general") tend to understeer more than oversteer (as rear wheel drive cars do) so putting better tyres on the front will give a better balance as they wear down, this is my theory and I will stick to it until I feel how the Marangoni will perform, obviously I'm not flexing them yet as they are aren't broken in.

Hope you understand my logic and agree.

But I get what you're trying to say and appreciate your concern, good advice others could take on boards too.

Thanks
Dei

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:24

You wont gain better balance - thats something taken up from the rally/race world - which you cant use in daily commuting traffic.

A standard car MUST have a bit of understeer to be as safe as possible.
The slightest oversteer - and bang you go as pr Dave Burns advice.
And NO - you are defo not that good a driver to "always be in control of your car" - especially if you go closer to limits of extremes.

There are no excuses - our public roads are no race tracks with room for experiments.

Paulee · Post by **Paulee** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:26

providing the rears are good I always put the best tyres on the front !
think about it where does all the braking go on ?
as was said Xantias understeer naturally and if you give the back end more grip (ie better tyres ) will understeer more.
At present my Xantia is awaiting new front tyres and is most entertaining
trying to go round wet roundabouts ! makes a change from what my Capri got up to ........

regards...Paul

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:28

Dave Burns wrote:WARNING: Your rear tyres need to be at least as good as your front ones, if they are not you run the risk of being overtaken by the rear of your own car.

Never put new tyre on the front, allways put them on the rear, and especially so if the new ones are better quality than whats allready on the rear.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I couldn't disagree more...

I always put the better tyres on the front of a front wheel drive car and especially with Citroen's. As deian points out the front wheels have to steer, carry more weight than the back, provide the traction for putting the power to the road, AND provide 70% of the braking.

In short the front wheels are doing a hell of a lot of work compared to the back wheels which are basically just along for the ride...

Although what you say might have some bearing on a car with a 50/50 weight balance or one that is rear wheel drive, it has no bearing on a Citroen which are typically 70/30 weight balance towards the front, and always front wheel drive.

It takes a LOT more grip at the front to come anything near approaching neutral or oversteer limit characteristics on a typical Citroen. (The most extreme example being the massively front heavy CX)

Just as one example for a few months I had 205/60/15 on the front of my Xantia and 185/65/15 on the rear (note, the rears had good tread depth) and there were NO problems with the handling even when pushing it hard and/or in the rain.

Overall grip increased and only if you took a corner agressively and suddenly lifted the throttle would the rear even think about wandering slightly wide - and just a little squirt of throttle would pull it in line. (You can get that to happen even with equal front/rear tyres anyway)

When I got around to increasing the rear tyres to the same size as the front I honestly didn't notice any significant difference, as it's nearly always the front tyres that let go first anyway, and therefore set the amount of overall grip. (Unless there is a huge difference between front and rear)

Note: I'm not advocating having bald tyres on the rear, that can certainly be dangerous, but it sounds like he has plenty of rear tread depth.

Regards,
Simon

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:38

deian wrote:Since putting them on the car is a LOT quiter and the suspension is a lot smoother when i complained about the harshness.

Actually I was wondering how you were getting on with that harshness problem, but I couldn't find the right thread to resurrect it. Last I heard you suspected your recon accumulator sphere of bubbling its gas away into the system ? Did you replace it ?

Regards,
Simon

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:40

It does not matter if the majority of you guys here agrees to put the best tyres on the front. It wont ever make the car more safe.
Its one of the basic rules in terms of vehicle stability during drive - to have best grip on the rear axle - as it is the rear axle always providing the stability steering.

This was proven already during the 1920'es - on front and rear driven vehicles. There is no such term as "traction" for best "speed" or "performance". This belongs purely to race tracks - never, ever on public roads where stability is the only concern.

Have you guys forgotten the basics during your drivers license education and exam ?

Paulee · Post by **Paulee** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:56

You may be right Anders but if I have to swerve to avoid an idiot on the motorway pulling out on me I prefer my car to be at its optimun

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 20 Jun 2006, 23:57

Hi Anders,

AndersDK wrote:It does not matter if the majority of you guys here agrees to put the best tyres on the front. It wont ever make the car more safe.

You're forgetting something - safety is not just the behaviour during cornering on the limit. What about safety in stopping distances ? Put the better tyres on the back and the worse tyres on the front and you'll worsen your stopping distance considerably.

Its one of the basic rules in terms of vehicle stability during drive - to have best grip on the rear axle - as it is the rear axle always providing the stability steering.

Well actually both the front and the rear provide the steering stability

If either end lets go you lose your ability to steer. The difference is whether you prefer the rear to spin around and smack into an oncoming car, or whether you prefer the front to drift wide and smack into an oncoming car....

in either case you're going too fast for the corner...

This was proven already during the 1920'es - on front and rear driven vehicles.

I think vehicle handling science has moved on a bit since the 1920's....

There is no such term as "traction" for best "speed" or "performance". This belongs purely to race tracks - never, ever on public roads where stability is the only concern.

Traction in this context means the ability of the front wheels to maintain traction or "grip" when faced with the responsibility of both steering and pulling the car at the same time.

Not enough grip at the front and as soon as you put some power on around a corner you lose your ability to steer.... not a safe condition in anyones books.

Have you guys forgotten the basics during your drivers license education and exam ?

Not sure what you're refering to there... bear in mind this whole thread is basically just a disguised rehash of the front wheel drive vs rear wheel drive argument - (eg do you prefer understeer or oversteer) and you're NEVER going to get a group of people to agree on which is best....

Regards,
Simon

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 21 Jun 2006, 00:02

Clonk ...

Advising owners to put the best tyres on front is false, wrong and highly dangerous

For owners who takes safety in daily commuting serious :
http://www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_ ... r_neuf.jsp

To the rest of the mob : dont bother.

French Car Forum

got new front tyres... wow

got new front tyres... wow

Re: got new front tyres... wow