If this is what's panning out to be the case on my latest acquisition what can I expect? Is the best course of action a total engine swap or do I lift the head and repair the valves - aren't the bottom ends stronger than the valves anyway? Not sure about bore damage that's the only thing...
I have seen a valve snap and get pushed up through the cylinder head on a CX 2.0 years ago, but that was only on one valve - the belt was OK - took me a while to work out what happened with that one!!
Anyone been here with this scenario ahead of me?
Andrew
2.0i Xantia suspected snapped timing belt
Moderator: RichardW
I'm not sure if you have done much damage at all. If this is an 8 valve engine I think the valves are in a wedge shaped combustion chamber and there may well be clearance.
Before doing much I'd get another belt, fit it and see if there is any compression. Another test that MAY work is to simply take the plugs out and gently revolve the crank and see if anything feels atrange or makes a noise that sounds like an impact. You could also position a piston at TDC and gently revolve the cam.
There are I believe a couple of posts on here, one if I remember correctly involved a 2.0CT engine.
Before doing much I'd get another belt, fit it and see if there is any compression. Another test that MAY work is to simply take the plugs out and gently revolve the crank and see if anything feels atrange or makes a noise that sounds like an impact. You could also position a piston at TDC and gently revolve the cam.
There are I believe a couple of posts on here, one if I remember correctly involved a 2.0CT engine.
jeremy
Cheers Jeremy. I'll check things out later today!! Just winding down after the excursion fetching the car back and I'm surprised I'm managing the hit the right keys or for that matter in the correct order!! As far as I can determine [not being genned on S2's] it's an 8v 2.0i without a turbo, so I'm hoping it's straightforward.
Andrew
Andrew
Most times these belts snap either as the car starts, at idle or as you change gear, as a result they are usually only doing low revs whan it happens. Someone did once give me a good practical explanation as to why this happens at low revs more often than high, but it was feasible (something along the lines of belt suddenly getting pressure released and reapplied or jerky types of actions finding the weak spots.)
Thankfully, I've never had any experience with it happening, but from what I've been told, they usually bend a couple of valves and rarely if ever damage pistons or bottom end components.
A head off job on one of these should be a reasonably straightforward affair with no sleeves and things to worry about, so it should be head off, valves out, chuck bent or suspect valves, get new valves get remaining valves faced and all seats cut, head checked for straightness and a skim taken off if need be, new VRS and reassemble.
If you can get the machine work done at short notice, a nice weekends job, or failing that, strip one Saturday, take to machine shop and collect parts, gaskets etc, during the week and reassemble following Saturday.
Alan S
Thankfully, I've never had any experience with it happening, but from what I've been told, they usually bend a couple of valves and rarely if ever damage pistons or bottom end components.
A head off job on one of these should be a reasonably straightforward affair with no sleeves and things to worry about, so it should be head off, valves out, chuck bent or suspect valves, get new valves get remaining valves faced and all seats cut, head checked for straightness and a skim taken off if need be, new VRS and reassemble.
If you can get the machine work done at short notice, a nice weekends job, or failing that, strip one Saturday, take to machine shop and collect parts, gaskets etc, during the week and reassemble following Saturday.
Alan S
RIP Sept 19th 2008.
She said "Put the cat out" She didn't mention it was on fire!!
She said "Put the cat out" She didn't mention it was on fire!!
-
Stempy
- Posts: 1626
- Joined: 26 Feb 2004, 23:21
- Location: Cloud Cuckooland
- My Cars: C5 V6 Mk1 assainated by wife
Renault Kangoo 1.6 auto, tarted up and remapped
Still missing the Xantia V6
Not missing the AX - Contact:
I thought the later 2.0i models had the 16v engine. If it's a Mk2 Exclusive with the auto adaptive box then this is quite likely. I was after an estate one of these myself at one point, they're a bit less sluggish than the older Mk1 8v autos. Shame they never did a V6 estate.
It infuriates me to be wrong when I know I'm right
Lexia ponce
http://perception.dyndns.biz/~avengineering/index.htm
Lexia ponce
http://perception.dyndns.biz/~avengineering/index.htm
-
citroenxm
- Posts: 8061
- Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
- Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
- My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto
2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising - x 71
Stempy
Yes. Manual gearbox cars got 16v Engines, and these do just bend valves only. Had two cars do this, as the valves are angled in relation to the pistion heads, the valve steams take the knock and bend.
The "Older" 8v engines, are similar to the DERV design, and are directly over the pistons BUT the head has a recess (think thats the correct word) in the piston area so the valves DO NOT PROTRUDE into piston area as much as diesels.
I've never worked on an 8v thats broken a belt, only stripped one down. I've only done the 16v.
So I'd guess a couple of valves at worse, and pistons fine.
Good luck andmcit
regards
citroenxm
Yes. Manual gearbox cars got 16v Engines, and these do just bend valves only. Had two cars do this, as the valves are angled in relation to the pistion heads, the valve steams take the knock and bend.
The "Older" 8v engines, are similar to the DERV design, and are directly over the pistons BUT the head has a recess (think thats the correct word) in the piston area so the valves DO NOT PROTRUDE into piston area as much as diesels.
I've never worked on an 8v thats broken a belt, only stripped one down. I've only done the 16v.
So I'd guess a couple of valves at worse, and pistons fine.
Good luck andmcit
regards
citroenxm
Why would the bottom end be damaged ?andmcit wrote:Oh I'm sure Anders, didn't expect anything else!
What'd be the best course of remedying the problem - engine swap or head off and cross fingers bottom end will be OK. The car is an air con & autobox car and I don't want to disturb these if I can get away with it.
Andrew
Its always bent valves and/or sheared camshaft in these horror stories. No piston troubles, no big end troubles, no main troubles and no crank troubles.
You have been moaning lately over the many cars you have bought on Ebay - in need for this or that to be repaired to get them on the roads again. Obviously time is your main concern then.
What do you think is the most time consuming : replacing a cylinder head or a complete engine & box ?
- because thats what you're facing.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
Wouldn't say I was moaning. Surely everyone here'd sound like they're moaning talking about things that DON'T work if you look at it like that!!
IF I didn't fancy the "challenge" I wouldn't bother in the first place!! I don't mind working on these purchases and I get a buzz out of fixing them, not bodging them together just long enough to sell [I've NEVER sold anything yet] - I'm not going to either with the heater matrix car that technically isn't mine either although I won it for a friend on ebay.
What I do mind however is wasting time unesessarily where it could be spent on another job, so saw it fit to cast a view from the fellow listers where someone just may have fixed theirs last week!
No, in this case I'd written this car off as scrap before seeing it without realising WHAT A CAR IT IS and a shame it would be to rip apart.
In past dealings with snapped belts, I've seen the debris of the valve[s] scoring the bore[s] badly and effectively ruining the block as well as the case mentioned earlier where one snapped, dropped and then got speared back up to the head and through into the waterway jaming up [that waterway didn't leak either!!].
Whilst the bore WILL be a damn sight stronger than everything else scoring may well be the case here I don't know - thought I'd ask!
Sheesh...
Andrew
IF I didn't fancy the "challenge" I wouldn't bother in the first place!! I don't mind working on these purchases and I get a buzz out of fixing them, not bodging them together just long enough to sell [I've NEVER sold anything yet] - I'm not going to either with the heater matrix car that technically isn't mine either although I won it for a friend on ebay.
What I do mind however is wasting time unesessarily where it could be spent on another job, so saw it fit to cast a view from the fellow listers where someone just may have fixed theirs last week!
No, in this case I'd written this car off as scrap before seeing it without realising WHAT A CAR IT IS and a shame it would be to rip apart.
In past dealings with snapped belts, I've seen the debris of the valve[s] scoring the bore[s] badly and effectively ruining the block as well as the case mentioned earlier where one snapped, dropped and then got speared back up to the head and through into the waterway jaming up [that waterway didn't leak either!!].
Whilst the bore WILL be a damn sight stronger than everything else scoring may well be the case here I don't know - thought I'd ask!
Sheesh...
Andrew
Another point to mention is I DON'T NEED to get any of these newly purchased Citroen's repaired to get them running on the roads again, most of them are doing fine as they are on top with what's on the road at the moment anyway...like Chelsea players, they're all used on a rotational basis!AndersDK wrote: You have been moaning lately over the many cars you have bought on Ebay - in need for this or that to be repaired to get them on the roads again. Obviously time is your main concern then.
What do you think is the most time consuming : replacing a cylinder head or a complete engine & box ?
- because thats what you're facing.
I see it my duty to REALLY p**s THE NEIGHBOURS OFF for past deeds they've inflicted upon myself!
Frankly, by the time I've fannied about taking the head apart I may as well have had the lot out and another hoisted in; which I have happily done in the past.
Andrew
Oops, this could get interesting, it IS a 16v!!citroenxm wrote:Stempy
Yes. Manual gearbox cars got 16v Engines, and these do just bend valves only. Had two cars do this, as the valves are angled in relation to the pistion heads, the valve steams take the knock and bend.
The "Older" 8v engines, are similar to the DERV design, and are directly over the pistons BUT the head has a recess (think thats the correct word) in the piston area so the valves DO NOT PROTRUDE into piston area as much as diesels.
I've never worked on an 8v thats broken a belt, only stripped one down. I've only done the 16v.
So I'd guess a couple of valves at worse, and pistons fine.
Good luck andmcit
regards
citroenxm
Bug*er! You were right Stempy...
More valves to 'unbend' then!! Where did you get your two set's worth from then? Is it a main dealer option only?
Andrew
