1998 1.9td VSX Xantia Electrics

ghostrider · Unread post by **ghostrider** » 20 May 2006, 18:53

This all started after I had my windscreen replaced, first the hazard lights, heated rear window, radio, cigarette lighter did not work. No blown fuses but fixed it in the end as it appeared that the shunt to fuses in the fascia fuse box was broken.
Came down this am after heavy rain all night to find brake lights on, the only fuse I could remove to kill them was the 40A fuse in the fuse box under the bonnet not the pair at the front of the box but the one in the row behind it. Even disconnecting the stop light switch at the pedal didn't turn them off

No signs of water in the car though
Is it the Ignition Switch? I wonder any ideas would be gratefully received
Pete
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Motorcycle Tires

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 20 May 2006, 19:37

Hi Pete -

Had a look on Xantia schematics. I'm a bit unsure if your's is a pre/facelift model.

The brakes rear stoplights are feeded off the ignition key switch in both pos 2 & 3 - and via fuse F28 to the brakes pedal switch. From this switch its a direct feed to the bulbs in the rear lights clusters.

However - in parallel to the rear stop bulbs are feeds leading off to the ABS & Cruise control circuits - whichever may be fitted on you car.
These 2 circuits should of course not be able to feed a voltage to the stop light bulbs under normal conditions. But any haywock in these circuits/harnesses could cause an un-controlled +12V feed point.

ghostrider · Unread post by **ghostrider** » 20 May 2006, 20:57

Hi Anders,
Long time no speak

Sounds like I have a problem as you describe, I wish I could get my Lasertec Manual to work.

My car is pre facelift with ABS but no cruise control, If I pull F28 it has no effect so there must be a fault in the harness.

I have been unable to get the fuse box out as it looks like the dash has to come out, which it may have to do as I have a heater matrix leak which could be related to this problem although as far as I know I managed to fix that temporarily with Radweld.
Do you know where the harness runs so I can start checking it out?
Thanks Pete
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HERBALAIRE REVIEW

ghostrider · Unread post by **ghostrider** » 20 May 2006, 22:35

Oh yeah one other thing Anders, the brake lights stay on even with the ignition off

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ROLLING A JOINT

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 20 May 2006, 23:33

ghostrider wrote:Oh yeah one other thing Anders, the brake lights stay on even with the ignition off

Which is just another indication of a harness fault. The brakes light should come on by the pedal switch only - whether the ignition key switch is turned or shorted out.
I'm pretty sure you can exclude the key switch as the problem.

I'll be back with some of the harness schematics - hold on.

ABS / pad wear harness
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 017010.gif
TD engine harness
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 012930.gif
0290 05 501153A MAIN WIRING UNDER BONNET CONDUITE A DROITE ET BVM ET REFRIGERATION
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 011600.gif

Not really informative I'm afraid ...

ghostrider · Unread post by **ghostrider** » 21 May 2006, 00:42

Thanks for the diagrams Anders, I'm just trying to see where there is commonality between the brake light harness & the ABS etc.

The only thing is that none of the fuses in the fascia fuse box will disconnect the brake lights, likewise the small value fuses under the bonnet, so it would appear that the short is between a supply cable from the battery before it gets to the ignition switch or fuse box and the brake light harness.

The only thing I noticed from your diagrams is that there appears to be a harness going through the bulkhead just below where the windscreen attaches at the bottom I wonder if the guy managed to damage the harness at that point when he was taking the old screen out?
Pete
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Honda Racing Corporation

RStacey · Unread post by **RStacey** » 21 May 2006, 10:10

I have pictures of the harness with the dash removed if they would be of help (I will have to work out how to post them) - from the possition of the harness it doesn't seem possible to damage the harness when changing the windscreen

Regards

Richard

ghostrider · Unread post by **ghostrider** » 21 May 2006, 15:33

thanks for the offer Richard, I'll take you up on the offer if I have to remove the dash. Latest development is when I put my foot on the brake even with the ignition off the electrics all come on to the same extent as if you had turned the key to the position before the starter motor is fired
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Dodge A100 History

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 22 May 2006, 13:28

I have pictures of the harness … (I will have to work out how to post them)

The pictures have to be uploaded on a server and linked to the forum.
I mostly use this: http://imageshack.us/

from the position of the harness it doesn't seem possible to damage the harness when changing the windscreen

Well, nobody was there to see what happened.

The fault is obviously related to the work they did.
It looks like there is damaged insulation to at least two touching wires.

RStacey · Unread post by **RStacey** » 22 May 2006, 14:51

Thanks I'll try and work out the pictures

The main loom runs through the bulkhead just above the fusebox and into the offside wheel arch and is not accessable at all without either removing the plastic inner wheel arch cover or the dashboard - the only part of the loom that is vunerable while changing a windscreen is the windscreen wiper feed and anything else which runs under the plastic cover at the bottom of the windscreen (I cant remember what else there is) - It may be worth taking the cover off and having a look - its not a major job and any damage should be obvious

Regards

Richard

ghostrider · Unread post by **ghostrider** » 22 May 2006, 16:33

Richard you are right there is nothing but windscreen wiper wiring immediately below the windscreen, I've spent most of the day dodging the rain checking things out checked out fuse box nothing wrong as far as I can see.
Pulled plug under carpet by drivers door to disconnect the whole of the rear light/ central locking/ screen wash /wipe/ heated rear window to exclude faults there. There is 12V on the bulb side of the stop light sw which with the sw disconnected there shouldn't be (I think

) If i pull all the live feeds from the fuse box there is still 12 V there. I then pulled the large value fuses under the bonnet, The haynes Manual does not identify them there are 2 a 60A and an 80A that both have to be disconnected to lose the voltage on the brake pedal switch.
I then checked for continuity from the brake pedal bulb side and found that with the ignition sw connectors dis connected there was continuity between 2 of the feeds from the battery to the ignition sw and the bulb side of the brake pedal wiring so it seems as if there is a short between the feed from the battery and the lead from the brake pedal sw to the multiplug by the drivers door which seems very odd, the only unknown being that the ABS (No wiring diagrams at all in Haynes for that little can of worms

)which works fine is connected somewhere along that piece of wire. Next up is to look at the harness where it crosses the front of the car under the rad, presumably taking the supply form the battery /fuses to the drivers side inner wing and so through to the fuse box.
If only I could get that Lasertec Manual to work I might have some decent wiring layouts to work from

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Suzuki gsx-r1000

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 23 May 2006, 11:05

Too good a coincidence to incriminate the windscreen mob; but strange electrical faults do come from the harness along the bottom of the radiator.
There is talk of a loom under the radiator, but the one I’ve got in mind runs along the back of the bottom of the radiator, visible under the bonnet.
The shroud pieces would have the openings at the top, and let water in.
Story in this topic, hoping not to lead you around the garden path:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=16816

ghostrider · Unread post by **ghostrider** » 23 May 2006, 15:48

Thanks for that Clogzz, that will be next port of call, I checked the wiring from that plug under thew D/s carpet this am and there appears to be a fault there as well as the stop light wire appears to be connected to 7 of the terminals in the plug, I seem to remember someone else having problems with another connector onder the back carpet somewhere, so it looks like I have several faults!
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MALE ADVICE FORUM

RStacey · Unread post by **RStacey** » 24 May 2006, 02:00

There is talk of a loom under the radiator, but the one I’ve got in mind runs along the back of the bottom of the radiator, visible under the bonnet.

On my pre facelift Xantias the loom runs along the back of the bottom of the radiator as described, but on the 1999 Exclusive they've moved it to the front of the cross member behind the bumper - you can only get access to it by completely removing the bumper (which is a pain) - I hope yours is the original route

Regards

Richard

ghostrider · Unread post by **ghostrider** » 24 May 2006, 12:13

Hey Richard something that is easy

to get at, well it would be wouldn't it, due to all my air con/ cooling fan problems I've got getting the front bumper and all the ancilliaries off down to about 20 minutes now 8) 8) so my expertise in that area wont be needed.... just waiting for the rain to stop to start checking it out.
Ha just been to collect my daughter from one of her GCSE exams, when I got back went to disconnect the battery and guess what brake lights have gone out

I don't doubt the problem will resurface any time soon

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Lamborghini 350Gtv History