Citroen - Peugeot 1.9td - Starter Motor query

sooty · Unread post by **sooty** » 17 May 2006, 19:35

Are there any differences between the Citroen 1.9td starter motor and a Peugeot 1.9td used in ZX's and 306's of 1995-96.

The reason of asking, my ZX turns over fairly fast and starts easily, but with my sons and daughters 306 one is a 1995 and the other a 1996 both are really slow when turning over and struggle to start in comparison to mine.

Both had batteries tested OK - heaters tested working and voltage OK - all earth leads checked OK - both had voltage check at starter OK
One has Lucas and the other has Bosch fuel systems, one has 60k and the other 80k, but mines on 168k.

So, are there any differences between Citroens and Peugeots ???

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 17 May 2006, 22:08

Doubt it, after all, it's the same architecture for the engine...

With all the discounts and special offer deals, it's probably just Citroen penny pinching where you can't see it, by fitting a lighter flywheel!!

Andrew

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 17 May 2006, 22:09

If they're the same age and have the same engines, they should have identical starting systems. It may be the case that your car has a larger capacity battery than the other cars or perhaps the battery is a bit newer, the other batteries could be a little down on their "new" capacities but still hold charge well enough.

You're engine has done 100k more than the others, engines turn over more easilly when they're old and worn, once the piston rings and the cylinders have worn and the compresion softens.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 17 May 2006, 22:10

Or maybe a SHORTER lead from the battery to the starter!!

Andrew

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 17 May 2006, 23:56

Just about anything has been checked you say. But have you ever measured the voltages at the starter, the glowplugs and the battery poles during starting attempts ?

We are talking pretty precise voltage measurements here - not just some "12V" indicated by a testlamp.
Bet you will be surprised how different the cars checks out then !

sooty · Unread post by **sooty** » 18 May 2006, 20:24

Thanks for your replies

I've tried my Battery on both, made no difference.

I've had my ZX since 60k and its always been the same, fast in turning over.

The batteries and Starters are in the same position in all cars and of the same length cables.

I shall try as anders says to measure accurately the voltages.

Thanks again.

reblack68 · Unread post by **reblack68** » 18 May 2006, 20:33

I have a Citroen TD of similar age and mileage to yours and the starter is really slow. I know the diesels should have a starter with a reduction gear, maybe your Citroen has had a direct drive starter fitted.

sooty · Unread post by **sooty** » 18 May 2006, 22:57

Reblack68 - thanks for that.

As I knew the previous owner, as far as I know its the original starter.

How do I determine which type of starter I have in comparison to the Pugs which are slower.

thanks

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 19 May 2006, 01:43

Starter motors with reduction gear have a distinct whirring sound when cranking the engine. Also they tend not to crank the engine as fast - but rather more steady. They do not consume those insanely high peak currents like their more wellknown counterparts. Hence they are in fact more gentle to battery load.

Some call it a "Mitshubishi" starter as Mitshubishi was one of the first manufacturers making these starters - as they do the whole range of automotive power electric and electronic components - not only cars.
The starter housing has sort of an offset buildout which contains the reduction gears.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 20 May 2006, 10:04

The reduction gear type starters are also considerably smaller than the direct drive type, they look more like a petrol engine starter. I improved one on an XM by removing the starter gearbox and lubricating it, but some starters seem to be slower than others for no particular reason.

goldfinche · Unread post by **goldfinche** » 20 May 2006, 13:44

Hello The gearbox type starter apears to be unobtainable and only the 'normal' type are supplied. I was quite suprised to find that there was a difference in starting and put this down to the gearbox type being tired, as indeed it was when stripped and checked. Brushes and solenoid having shorted turns.
The earth lead from the engine to body and body to battery should not be forgotten as they can develop high resistance joints.
Cheers.
Geoff.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 20 May 2006, 14:21

Thats strange.....all of mine have had the geared starter, except perhaps my very first BX.

goldfinche · Unread post by **goldfinche** » 20 May 2006, 21:22

Hi This has got to be about a year ago when I ran out of spare secondhand starters and tried to get an exchange gearbox type starter and was told that they were no longer available. Needed one in a hurry so had to have what was offered.
Cheers.
Geoff.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 20 May 2006, 21:52

I believe you! Its just that I thought that the geared starter was the natural update for the direct drive type and that they were all like that now. Mind you, I dont think I have ever bought a new starter. You used to be able to get brush and bearing repair kits for for the old ones, so that was what I did.

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Citroen - Peugeot 1.9td - Starter Motor query

Citroen - Peugeot 1.9td - Starter Motor query

Starters.