HDI LHM in front nearside footwell

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andmcit
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HDI LHM in front nearside footwell

Post by andmcit »

It sounds crazy, but that's what seems to be the case with a mate's new purchase - the car has been losing LHM without any other obvious symptoms until now that is!

IT DEFINITELY ISN'T COOLANT FROM THE HEATER MATRIX!!

The car is a 99 reg V plate estate.

ANY IDEAS?

I seem to recall someone mentioning this on the forum before.

Is it down to a bridge from the afterthought RHD BRAKE PEDAL location on the LHD designed car?

Andrew
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Post by fastandfurryous »

Dosieur valve failure sounds favourite to have caused that.

Seals kits are available as far as I know, but what a fiddly job!
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andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

How would a leaking seal on the brake valve result in LHM in the passenger's footwell - just to clarify - the car is RHD!

I understand that as per the Xm the brake pedal relocation from LHD to RHD is a bit of a duff lazy design by Citroen's design engineers...

I'm going very much blind at the moment with info being relayed by mobile about the car's problem. The loss of the fluid doesn't seem to be excessive, so it would appear unless it's a minor crack in a high pressure pipe the favourite is a low pressure return.

Although I've broken a 95 TD I cannot recall what's actually in this area inside the car's footwell!? I appreciate the main returns and reservoir are just the opposite side but surely any leakage would be kept engine side anyway.

Andrew
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Post by PowerLee »

andmcit wrote:How would a leaking seal on the brake valve result in LHM in the passenger's footwell - just to clarify - the car is RHD!

I understand that as per the Xm the brake pedal relocation from LHD to RHD is a bit of a duff lazy design by Citroen's design engineers...

I'm going very much blind at the moment with info being relayed by mobile about the car's problem. The loss of the fluid doesn't seem to be excessive, so it would appear unless it's a minor crack in a high pressure pipe the favourite is a low pressure return.

Although I've broken a 95 TD I cannot recall what's actually in this area inside the car's footwell!? I appreciate the main returns and reservoir are just the opposite side but surely any leakage would be kept engine side anyway.

Andrew
Xantia brakes have LHM fluid running through there pipes seeing as they are interconnected to the suspension system.
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Post by fastandfurryous »

Sorry.... missed that point about it being in the left hand footwell!

I wonder if this is a LP leak, running down the bulkhead, and dribbling in through a grommet/hole of some sort.
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Post by AndersDK »

Andrew -

Its wellknown that the rubber bulb on end of the brake doseur valve can leak LHM and cause soaked carpets in the drivers footwell - no matter LHD or RHD.
To soak the passenger footwell the LHM leak must take a route that allows the LHM to leak from a point at least a bit left to the center tunnel.

I dont know the Xantia brake doseur return hose setup - but on the BX there are 2 return hoses. One goes down over the subframe - th other leads up to the RHS wing - and then the 2 hoses are joined just before they enter the reservoir located front RHS. On LHD BX'es the upper return trakes a route inside the rubber list on the edge of the firewall. This CAN make for mysterious leakways - but this hose is the rigid black nylon - unlikely to develop a leak.

Now - the Xantia has its reservoir on the rear LHS of engine bay (exactly opposite to the BX, but matching the CX setup) - making for something like a "reversed routing" compared to the BX - of the brake doseur return hoses. If one of the Xantia brake return hoses are routed at the rubber list or at/inside the firewall compartment - you have a leak route to the passenger side.

Or are you cheating us :wink:
As it could as well be any other hose - or the reservoir can itself - leaking down the firewall into the passenger footwell.
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andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

This isn't a windup! :lol:

Sounds like it's well knackered the carpet AND IT IS LHM!!

The only posibility I can offer at this present moment in time [without seeing the car yet] is the reservoir has been overfilled and some bright spark in the past has routed the overflow pipe on the cap to somewhere into the bulkhead.

Apparently even the top uppermost surface of the reservoir has a layer of fluid - like someone's been flinging it around everywhere!!

Seemingly, there's no obvious ailment that can be pinned down - there's no 'it's the such and such that always does that...' then!!

Andrew
Last edited by andmcit on 13 May 2006, 23:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by citronut »

i would re/check with the owner of the car in case they have mistaken the O/S for the N/S,as a lot of people do as it certainly sounds lie the dozer valve seal leaking
regards malcolm
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Post by Mandrake »

citronut wrote:i would re/check with the owner of the car in case they have mistaken the O/S for the N/S,as a lot of people do as it certainly sounds lie the dozer valve seal leaking
regards malcolm
What is it with you guys up there, can't you just use "left side" and "right side" like we do down here ? :lol: :lol:

To me N/S and O/S seems just as archaic as saying port or starboard :lol: Before joining this forum I had never heard of anyone refering to the sides of a car as nearside or offside and I still find it ambiguous now...(especially when some members of this forum are in LHD countries :? )

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Simon
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andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

Mandrake wrote:
citronut wrote:i would re/check with the owner of the car in case they have mistaken the O/S for the N/S,as a lot of people do as it certainly sounds lie the dozer valve seal leaking
regards malcolm
What is it with you guys up there, can't you just use "left side" and "right side" like we do down here ? :lol: :lol:
Simon
Is this as you look at the car from the front or as you're looking out as you're driving!! :wink:

I'll own up to confusing the LHD and RHD issue when referring to the brake valve installation - if you've ever seen the total EFFORT [dog's breakfast!!] made for the levers and pipe routing to get the brake pedal input to the actual brake valve on a RHD Xm [in the scuttle ffs] a leak in the pasenger's footwell [in a RHD car!! :wink: ] won't surprise you in the slightest!!

I did ask to first clarify if it WAS LHM and exactly which footwell we're talking about!! :lol:

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Post by citronut »

in UK workshop terms O/S=drivers side(rihgt hand side) and N/S=passengersside(eft hand side)this is all when sitting in the car faceing the front
regards malcolm
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Post by AndersDK »

O/S = offside = roadside = drivers side in a RHD car viewed from inside car = passengers side in a LHD car viewed from inside car = starboard = RHS side on any driving, sailing, flying vehicle moving forward from any part of the world.

Lets try that again ?

N/S = nearside = kerbside = passenger side in a RHD car viewed from inside car = drivers side in a LHD car viewed from inside car = port = LHS on any driving, sailing, flying vehicle moving forward from any part of the world.

WHAT IF you are reversing ? :shock:
- ahh ... GO WEST :lol:
Last edited by AndersDK on 16 May 2006, 23:08, edited 1 time in total.
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andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

Great - now we're all talking from the same crib sheet - there's still LHM in the footwell that'll be on the front left hand side as you're driving...

forwards!! :lol:

I've had a good think about where/how fluid can get where it shouldn't be!!

1 - If the brake doseur valve is leaking in it's location in the opposite footwell it can't be that easy to get all the fluid in the other footwell and none directly beneath it. I don't for one minute think the car has been parked at a crazy angle just to allow the fluid to collect at the lowest point opposite...

2 - The bulkhead leaking large levels of rogue LHM from somewhere else [!!] through a conveniently positioned AND loose grommet...

3 - allowing for the fact the car has needed LHM topping up due to leaks elsewhere [EVEN PERHAPS in the engine bay!!], the previous owner could have been clumsy spilling the fluid beforehand...

and then forgotten and/or not noticed!?

4 - there's a random high/low pressure pipe that for reasons best known to itself is in the bulkhead area on the left hand side and it's decided to leak!!

I can't think of any other alternatives, and no Anders, this isn't a wind up honest!!

I guess money would be on reason 3! :shock:

It MAY be one of those time will tell solutions - it's just a bit messy/expensive/frustrating for my pal who'll want to get to the bottom of this asap...

Andrew
andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

Maybe it's ALL my fault - I told him it sounded like an otherwide great purchase and he should buy it... :oops: :shock: :wink:

A straight V reg HDI Estate with MOT and toys etc for less than £500...

Yes really, I was gutted I missed it myself. Mind I'm saving loads on the LHM I'm not using/losing. :lol:

In truth, I've no idea how bad all this actually is in practice - there's a chance I'll see it for myself in the middle of next week.

Andrew
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Post by dnsey »

How about this:
It's been losing LHM for a while (from an unspecified leak), so the previous owner carried a bottle of LHM on the floor, which tipped over...
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