xantia cooling fan

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 12 May 2006, 19:23

Hi everybody,I'm back for more advice!My husband recently noticed that only one fan was working on my Xantia 1.9 TD.He went and bought a new fan from the breakers,put it in,but it still didn't work.we tested the original fan by connecting it up to the battery and it was good anyway,so now we've got a spare!We also got the three relays that go in between the fans and tried these,but still no luck.has anyone got any ideas?Are they both definately supposed to work at the same time or does one cut in after the other?I'd appreciate any advice.Thanks.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 12 May 2006, 20:06

Suzie,

I have just had the same problem.
Have a look here:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=18965

Dave.

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 13 May 2006, 14:15

Both fans always have to do the same thing.
Both stopped, both spinning slow, both spinning fast.
At the low speed, the fans are wired in series, and if the operation of one is faulty, neither will spin.
The engine then gets hot, until the high speed kicks in.
At the high speed, only one will spin if there’s a fault in the other one.
More stories here:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=19044

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=18871

john alexander · Post by **john alexander** » 14 May 2006, 00:48

Hi there , check the large 40amp fuse in the box behind the battery, it's probably blown. regards john

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 15 May 2006, 14:54

Hello again and thanks to everyone for the response.Still no luck unfortunately.So far we've tested the fan so we know the motor's good,we've tested the fuses in the fuse box inside the car,the fuses in the fuse box near the battery,the two 40amp fuses near the battery and tried three new relays(the ones that go in between the two fans)also cleaned all connections with switch cleaner.By the way the car does have aircon,but it's never worked since i had the car(about 6 months).I'm not bothered about the aircon,but i though it might be relevant to the fan problem.The right hand fan (from in front of the car)comes on at 95degrees and it's very fast.Anyone got any more ideas?thanks for all your help.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 15 May 2006, 17:21

This sounds just like the problem I had but, as your car is the aircon version, may not be.
Try running a temporary wire from pin 1 of the right hand relay (looking at the car from the front) to the battery positive - you can poke it into the relay socket and push in the relay but be careful of stray strands of wire that may short - and then put a shorting wire across the radiator temperature switch socket (holes 1 & 3) with the ignition turned off.
If both fans come on at low speed then that will prove that you have lost the battery voltage to that relay.
There should be a fuse but I never managed to find it on my car.

Bring on the bitron boys.

Dave.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 15 May 2006, 17:57

There is a wiring loom running underneath the front of a Xantia. When new its lovingly wrapped in Citroens very nice split trunking but if you're unlucky it can collect water and salt and the cables so lovingly protected sit in a corrosive bath and can disintegrate!

Worth getting underneath (support the car properly please - it can kill if it drops) and having a look.

Richard Gallagher · Post by **Richard Gallagher** » 15 May 2006, 22:11

Suzie, I had the same problem on a Xantia I owned a few years ago. I eventually traced the problem to a faulty earth or feed (I can't exactly recall which but believe it was an earth) to one of the three relays between the fans.

I spent hours and hours trying to locate the exact location of the fault (I believe it was under the radiator) but eventually gave up and fitted a new wire.

Take a look at this website www.peugeotlogic.com then follow 'Workshop' - 'Electrics' - '306 Cooling fans Basic Principal of Operation'

It has the wiring diagram and explains exactly how the fans operate. Whilst it is shown as being for a Pug 306, Xantia fans operate the same way.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 15 May 2006, 22:53

On my car the earth for the relay box between the fans is in the spiral bundle that runs above the left hand fan (viewed from the driving position) and terminates at the joint earth 'plate' on the L/H inner wing, close to the battery negative side.

On the radiator temp sensor switch socket, hole 3 should be connected to earth.
A first check of the system would be to make sure that is OK. Check it with a meter on a low Ohms setting or by connecting a bulb across it and the positive battery terminal.
If that is OK then, as in my earlier post. check for 12V on relay socket pin 1 of the relay that is on the right (viewed from the front of the car). Again you can do this with a bulb but connected to the relay pin 1 hole and the negative battery terminal.

The relay pin numbers are marked on the white plastic part of the relays, adjacent to the pins, but can be quite difficult to read.

Dave.

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 16 May 2006, 12:20

Nearside fan only spinning at the high speed means offside fan control fault, and consequently no low fan speed, because at the low speed they are in series, and one with faulty control causes both not to spin.
Since the car has air conditioning, it also has the Bitron controller for the fans.
The Bitron will not cause loss of the low speed.
It energises the relay of the nearside fan at both low and high speed.
At high speed, it also energises the nearside fan relay, plus the other two relays from one single other control pin.

With the engine running and the interior fan blower motor set to some speed setting, switch on the air conditioning, even if it doesn’t work.
That must cause the nearside fan relay to click on to operate the low speed.
This may be a 2-person job, one switching the aircon, the other listening for the relay clicking sound at the front.
If it doesn’t click on, fuse F5 of 5 Amps in the fuse box under the bonnet isn’t supplying the nearside fan relay.
By nearside, I mean kerb side, the footpath, right hand fan as seen when looking under the bonnet from the front of the car.
Air-conditioned car fan story and map here:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=17012

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=18871

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 16 May 2006, 16:47

hi again everyone and thank you for all your help and advice.we've been following your suggestions all day,but still no luck.this is what we've tried so far;we've tested pin 1 of the right hand relay(looking at the car from the front)as suggested by dave,and it's live(with the ignition on).we thought we'd found the problem when we checked the rad temperature sensor switch socket hole3 and there was no earth.we scotchlocked a new earth wire in place but this made no difference.clogzz suggested switching the aircon on with the engine running to listen for the relay clicking,did this and there was a click but we don't think this was coming from the relay,just the aircon switching on and off.if this makes any sense the rad switch with ignition on,pin1 is definately earth,pin3 is now a good earth and pin2 shows a live but only very dim(this is testing with a 12volt test lamp).the r/h relay(looking at car from front)shows pin1 live,pin3 live,pin5 earth and pin2 nothing(again with ignition on)sorry this is a slightly garbled explanation but it's the best way i can describe it and i just hope it makes sense to someone!major advice needed!where to go from here?thanks.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 16 May 2006, 19:59

Suzie,

What year is the car ? model ?

Have you tested the relays by removing them and putting 12V across pins 1 & 2. You should hear a positive click if the coil is OK on all of the relays.

If you have a meter you can check if the relay switch contacts are good or not. Set the meter to a low Ohms range and with 12V across the coil (pins 1 & 2) and the meter probes on pins 3 & 5 you should see a low or zero reading. With 12V removed from the coil, pins 3 & 5 should show open circuit ( no reading ). This is for the top two relays in the triangular relay box.

Dave.

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 16 May 2006, 20:40

hi dave,it's a'94 1.9 TD. thanks we'll try these tests tomorrow.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 17 May 2006, 01:06

I've been watching this with great interest to see if the conundrum was worked out and what it was and I'd like to make what might sound like a stupid suggestion; is there any chance the wrecker you got the fan off might swap it for another just to try it out?
I know it ran when a wire was run directly to it, but I had one doing similar things on my air/con Xantia; it would be running when I looked inside yet in traffic and hot weather, the car would occasionally overheat. When we pulled the fan motor apart, the carbon brushes were almost totally worn away to nothing.
I know it's a long shot, but may be at least worth considering so this actual fan and anything associated up to the plug is totally eliminated as a possible cause.

Alan S

Post by **RichardW** » 17 May 2006, 11:11

Susie,

Can you confirm your car has A/C, and the fans are operated by a radiator switch (located on the O/S of the rad, below the top hose)? Seems odd, as I thought all A/C cars had Bitron units to control the fans - there should be a brown sensor in the thermostat housing (on the front RH side as you look at it) with 2 wires going to it.

Assuming you have the rad switch (curious, but there are!) If you look at the thread where DaveW sorted his out, you will see that one of the pins on switch socket should be earth - the other 2 should be live (probably only with the ignition on - only one should be live with the igition off). I suspect that you have a similar fault to Dave whereby there is insufficient voltage being supplied to the 'low speed' relay to operate it, and you need to do the same as Dave and give the relay a new supply on Pin 1.