Difficult to start from cold

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
Jshodgson
Posts: 140
Joined: 18 Oct 2004, 22:59
Location: Torquay
My Cars:

Difficult to start from cold

Post by Jshodgson »

Over the last 2 weeks my TD has become more difficult to start from cold. It now needs heating twice first thing to start it. Once it is warm it starts absolutely fine.

The glow plugs looked like they had been recently changed and the previous owner kindly left me the most difficult one to do and the glow plug so that was changed last week.

The battery looks new and has an indicator on it which states it is in good health. The leads are nice and tightly connected.

The fule, oil and air filters are new (I fitted them). I have added some Redex recently to try to help clear some of the inevitable dirt.

What else can I try?
Had (Saxo VTR 1999 (T) LPG converted - do not ask!!!)
Had (Xantia LX TD 1995 (M) 144,000 miles)
Had (Xantia TD Estate (N) 147,000 miles !)
NOW GOT Picasso 2.0HDi (02) 96,000 miles
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

Try pumping the fuel primer before you start, if that improves matters you have an air leak somewhere.
Jshodgson
Posts: 140
Joined: 18 Oct 2004, 22:59
Location: Torquay
My Cars:

Post by Jshodgson »

thanks,

I was thinking it may be an air leak as I have had inconsistent performance and someone else said that may be caused by a leak. (the car goes as it should some times and is sluggish at other times)

I tried pumping the primer and it never got really hard. I then noticed it was leaking fuel from the top of the pump on one of the pipes. I have cut this back to good pipe and put it back on but the primer still doesn't get really hard hard. I can feel some resistance as I pump.

I'll try it in the morning. If as I expect, there is a leak do you have any tips on finding them?
Had (Saxo VTR 1999 (T) LPG converted - do not ask!!!)
Had (Xantia LX TD 1995 (M) 144,000 miles)
Had (Xantia TD Estate (N) 147,000 miles !)
NOW GOT Picasso 2.0HDi (02) 96,000 miles
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

Have you changed the fuel filter lately? They can obstruct the supply if clogged, and if it has been changed, the seal around the top can leak if you dont get it on completely square. If all else fails, try substituting the last section of fuel pipe where it feeds the pump, with a clear plastic piece and watch for bubbles. If the primer fails to go hard, it could be that its sucking air on the intake side or that the primer itself is faulty. If its a Bosch pump, check the injector leak off pipes, they can allow air in.
James.UK
Posts: 1169
Joined: 14 Dec 2003, 23:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 2

Post by James.UK »

Putting some thick grease round a pipe joint will act as a temporary air seal to help find where the leaks are. You can wipe it off again when you find the problem. :)
James. (Nr M67 East of Manchester).
Dark Blue ZX 1.9D Auto 1994 'L' 5 dr (modified) Aura. 98K miles used daily. Ave mpg 40
Wedgewood Blue 75 CTD auto Connoissaur. 2002. 144k. used daily. ave mpg 40 ish.
Jshodgson
Posts: 140
Joined: 18 Oct 2004, 22:59
Location: Torquay
My Cars:

Post by Jshodgson »

thanks

it has got a brand new fuel filter. The final piece of fuel pipe had been leaking so I have repaired that. I'll now look and see if I can find any air leaks as the primer still won't go hard.
Had (Saxo VTR 1999 (T) LPG converted - do not ask!!!)
Had (Xantia LX TD 1995 (M) 144,000 miles)
Had (Xantia TD Estate (N) 147,000 miles !)
NOW GOT Picasso 2.0HDi (02) 96,000 miles
caveman_si
Posts: 200
Joined: 29 Jan 2004, 23:46
Location: Liverpool
My Cars:

Post by caveman_si »

Just a thought do you have the ingnition on when priming?

I remember some one telling me when you prime the bulb you have to have the ingnition on otherwse the stop solanoid is still engaged. With it engaged no fuel can flow no matter how much you squeeze the bulb and if theres no fuel flowing the air in the pipes isnt getting purged and it wont make any difference to the starting of the car.
The glow plugs looked like they had been recently changed and the previous owner kindly left me the most difficult one to do and the glow plug so that was changed last week.
so you have defintely changed no 4 glow plug but are you sure that the other 3 are working? might be worth testing them. It is possible that if they are rubbish glow plugs that having one missing (ie the one you changed) could lead them to fail after a very short time. I have had beru glow plugs fail after 2 months because at the time i didnt have time to change them all so it is possible. Now i alway make sure i change 4 at a time even if it is a pain.
406 lx 1.9td estate
Jshodgson
Posts: 140
Joined: 18 Oct 2004, 22:59
Location: Torquay
My Cars:

Post by Jshodgson »

When I changed the 4th plug I did it at a mechanics and he tested all 4 for me. They are all working fine....apparently.

I do not have the ignition on when priming, I'll do this today, but the fuel definately came through to the pump as it was squirting all over the place from the damaged pipe (before it was reppaired).

When bleeding the fuel to get rid of air which bleed screw do you use? I was un doing the one at the front of the fuel filter housing at the bottom (long black plastic screw you do with your fingers). I un did it and pumped the primer and fuel subsequently squirted out but I couldn't tell if there were bubbles in it etc so I did up the screw.
Had (Saxo VTR 1999 (T) LPG converted - do not ask!!!)
Had (Xantia LX TD 1995 (M) 144,000 miles)
Had (Xantia TD Estate (N) 147,000 miles !)
NOW GOT Picasso 2.0HDi (02) 96,000 miles
Dave Burns
Posts: 1915
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 2

Post by Dave Burns »

Ignition on during priming only applies to Lucas/Rotodiesel pumps because on those the stop solenoid acts on the incoming fuel supply, this is not the case with the Bosch pump, fuel can allways be pumped through it, ignition on or off.

The screw at the bottom of the filter is a water drain, we all Know (or should all know from bath times :oops: ) that air rises rapidly in a fluid so why would you expect to see any exit at the bottom of the filter housing, you wont.

There aren't usually any air bleed points on these cars, if there is one at all it will be on top of the banjo union where the fuel enters the injection pump.

Remove the pump return pipe and replace it with a short length of pipe into a jar, now see if you get an approximate bulbs worth of fuel out for each squeeze.


Dave
User avatar
AndersDK
Posts: 6060
Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
Location: Denmark
My Cars:
x 1

Post by AndersDK »

Checked the battery voltage on my BX TRD the other day. Initial pole voltage some 12.7volt. During glow timing the voltage (directly on the poles) dropped down to some 10.9volts. It still started - though it blue smoked.
On a second attempt immediately after the voltage dropped further down to 10.2volts - and still starting. Since it had just been started the blue smoking was not as severe as first time.
Alternator belt screamed the first couple of seconds during engine idle.
Within 1 minute idling the battery had reached a voltage of some 14.3volts.

Conclusion : my battery was ready for replacement.

Now with my new battery fitted the engine starts right off the glow timing - no blue smoke - and the alternator works silent.

Morale : check simple things - like a tired battery. They have a limited life expectancy.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
Post Reply