Xantia timing belt

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 27 Apr 2006, 21:47

Hi.

I need a little advice.

Finally got to start work on the Xantia I bought earlier this year.
The person that owned the car for the past two years told me that she had not had one fitted so, as it now has 74K on the clock, that is the first job.

I have got the covers off but when the timing mark for the cam shaft pulley is right with a bolt inserted and a peg in the flywheel, the holes in the fuel pump do not line up exactly - very close but not quite close enough to get the bolts square enough to screw them in.
As I said I don't know if this is the original belt or not as there is a service information gap between the previous owner and the original owner from when the car was owned by someone else. From what I can see, the belt does not look too bad. All of the print is intact and clean looking, no cracking and there is little sign of polishing from the tensioner so it may have been a replacement.

I'm inclined to mark the fuel pump pulley as a guide, take the belt off and then move the f/p pulley a degree or so to put the bolts in. It seems to be such a small amount and to me looks to be less than a belt tooth.

What would your advice be ?

I've done a couple of BX's in the past without encountering this kind of problem (nor with a top rear cover held on with a bolt hidden under the turbo air pipes !!! )

Early replies would be much appreciated as I hope(?) to finish the job to-morrow.

Dave.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 27 Apr 2006, 21:57

Hi there...

Ok. ALL bolt/pin holes should line up, you should be able to screw in, I think 3 8mm bolts, one in the cam and two in the pump.. And of course pin in the flywheel.

What I would do, it remove the belt, then with a 22mm spanner on the pump and screw in the two 8mm bolts in the pump....

I guess the belt has stretched hence the slight miss alignment..

Refit a new belt at first instance.. I wouldn't trust it..

ALL BOLT HOLES MUST LINE UP.. It sounds like belt stretch as I said.

Good luck, looks like you've saved it in the nick of time!!!

regards
citroenxm

Post by **Peter.N.** » 27 Apr 2006, 23:30

Make sure you put the pin in the flywheel before you take the belt off!

Post by **KennyW** » 27 Apr 2006, 23:59

Hi DaveW,

Watch out for the crankshaft bolt , it can be on extremely tightly.
Previous threads have talked about different methods of removal.
The bolt has lock thread on it and this is what causes the problems , if you can heat the bolt up to liquify the lock thread it will move a bit easier and if you have access to a good impact wrench this will help.
Otherwise it is a straight forward job.

Regrads

KennyW

Post by **RichardW** » 28 Apr 2006, 07:39

There was a recent thread regarding fitting a new belt to a ZX TD recently - a new idle roller had been fitted and then the belt wouldn't fit properly. I sugsest you pin the crank and cam, remove the belt, pin the injection pump, then try and fit the new belt. If it won't go on, or is slack on the front run, then you will need to alter the position of the idler to get it right. See this thread:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=18663

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 28 Apr 2006, 10:42

Hi all,

Thanks to you all for your quick and helpful replies.

RichardW,
Very interesting post, thank you for pointing me to that.

Dave.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 28 Apr 2006, 20:01

Well.

An interesting day at the salt mine (read Xantia)

I worked my way through slowly, removed the crankshaft bolt with no real problem, until I got to the point of removing the old belt.
I could not get the tensioner to move despite having loosened the pivot bolt and the locking bolt - it appears to be seized solid.

Fortunately, I happened to have a made up 'special tool' - the one to contain the tensioner piston - from my BX days, so I decided to remove the tensioner and consulted the BOL : "remove the two lower bolts and slide the tool in ...". The rearmost bolt came out easily but the front can be loosened and slid out but only to the point where it hits the inner wing. The smaller diameter threaded extension - the bit that has been added to enable those stupid bolt on timing covers to be fitted - means that there is just not enough room to slide it out.

Has anyone else encountered a seized tensioner piston and if so what was your solution to the problem ?

Dave.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 28 Apr 2006, 20:10

Yes, I have had a siezed tensoner piston. The piston is steel and the housing alloy... with expected results.

The engine mount/tensioner unit has been modified from your BX days (as noted by the bolt on covers rather than clip on). What you now have to do is remove all 4 bolts, and then prise the housing off the engine.... there's a locating peg thingy around the top bolt (a pain in the arse, as it means you can't now remove the head without removing the mount/tensioner). Once it's prised off, the unit comes out, with bolts still in it.

To un-sieze the tensioner piston usually just needs WD40 and a bash. I put some coppergrease on mine to prevent it siezing again.

Mind you, I also got so annoyed with the idiot design of the later covers / tensioner / water pump etc, that I converted the whole side of the engine back to the clip on covers from a scrap engine I already had in the garage.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 28 Apr 2006, 21:32

fastandfurryous,

But the BOL says.....................

Thanks for that info.
I can see that there would not be a problem removing the tensioner whilst the piston is stuck, but how do you retain the piston against its spring when replacing it. If I use the tool then I cannot replace the long bolt once the unit is in position ?

How did you get yours back on ?

Dave.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 28 Apr 2006, 22:41

DaveW wrote:How did you get yours back on ?

With difficulty.

Personally, I fit the bracket without the piston, and then fit the spring & piston from below with the tensioner roller ready to slide onto it's stud, and hold the lot in place. It is a fiddle, but once you push the tensioner roller into position, the piston cannot ping out again, and you can get the square-drive onto the tensioner bracket, and do it up.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 28 Apr 2006, 23:47

That doesn't sound too bad.
I will see if I can get an extra pair of hands to help.

Thanks again,

Dave.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 30 Apr 2006, 00:32

I fixed the tensioner but with some difficulty.
As well as the bottom right bolt, the one with the threaded extension, the top left bolt also would not come out. This one has an extra long head which is drilled and threaded to take the 10mm bolt for the centre cover fixing.
It looks like when they changed to bolt on covers someone forgot that you might want to remove the tensioner with the engine in the car.

After three quarters of an hour wiggling it and pushing and pulling the engine around I gave up and sawed through the bolt as close as I could to the location tube.

To re-fit the tensioner plate I had to make a replacement bolt by drilling an axial hole down through a standard bolt and tapping it to 2BA. I also had to extend the threads on the bolt (the thread length was too short on the closest match I had) and then cut to the same length as the pre-sawn Cit. bolt.

It's all gone together OK and the 2BA bolt with a washer works as good as the 10mm cover bolt but, due to the time spent faffing around with this I still have to fit the plastic wheel arch shield and put the wheel on before I can light the wick and test the engine.

I didn't like doing this job on BX's as it was tedious and fiddly but with all the 'improvements' made to the Xantia, it's twice as bad.
I would just love to meet the person who 'designed'(?) these bolt on covers - preferably at night up a very dark alley.

Has anyone ever succeeded in replacing the 11mm bolt at the back of the rear cover ?
I'm keeping mine as a memento !

Dave.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 30 Apr 2006, 08:48

DaveW wrote:I didn't like doing this job on BX's as it was tedious and fiddly but with all the 'improvements' made to the Xantia, it's twice as bad.
I would just love to meet the person who 'designed'(?) these bolt on covers - preferably at night up a very dark alley.

You now know why I converted my XUD9TE engine back to clip on covers......

The 11mm bolt at the back is indeed a complete swine. You often have to remove turbo piping to get to it.

In stark comparison, I just changed a cambelt and water pump on a BX TD yesterday. 3 hours from driving the car into the garage to driving it out. As nasty as the access looks, I'd rather do this than a Xantia.

dnsey · Post by **dnsey** » 30 Apr 2006, 10:56

I'm always puzzled by this: both my Xantias have easily removed covers - especially the 2.0 16V - three Allen screws and a sliding clip. I'm glad I've never had a difficult one!

Dave Burns · Post by **Dave Burns** » 30 Apr 2006, 11:15

Its awkward granted, but by no means impossible.

Dave