Xant Q's

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rossnunn
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Xant Q's

Post by rossnunn »

sorted the front brakes on mothers Xant today, bit of a pig of a job, wrong set of discs to start with, spotty oik gave me hatchbacks rather than estates, broke 3 splines & had to drill out 1 disc screw. :roll:
I blead the brakes & noticed the LHM is a nice shade of brown so I'm going to replace it.
Is this a big job to do? Also I'm thinking of draining the Auto box oil & replace that too, again big job? anyhting to look out for? any useful tips/tricks?

Cheers

Ross
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Post by user_3150 »

I got the procedure for changing LHM from Anders it was spot on. Hopefully he reads this as I can't find my copy.
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Post by Mandrake »

Both LHM and Gearbox oil aren't too difficult.

LHM - lower the suspension fully with the engine idling for about 3 minutes, then turn off the engine and open the bleed screw half a turn.

This will return the maximum possible amount of oil to the tank. (A small amount will remain in the piping, but there is nothing you can do about that)

The next step is where there is a bit of disagreement - some people, and the Haynes book, say that you can lift the centre column out of the tank with all the pipes still attached.

On my car this was simply NOT possible. Some of the pipes go around BEHIND the tank, and if they have been cut and shortened (to repair the ends) by anyone you'll find that you simply can't lift it out with them attached.

If it looks like you can, first syphon as much oil out of the tank into another container as you can, (the tank holds around 5.4 litres) so that when you remove the two nuts holding the tank you'll be able to tilt the tank to help clear the centre column without spilling oil everywhere.

If you CANT get it to clear, you'll have to disconnect the pipes like I did. Make sure you buy a set of the right size jubilee clamps to replace the original crimp type. Also make sure you label them so they go back to the same places.

Plug each pipe with a bolt as you disconnect it, and I tied the bunch of pipes up inside a plastic ziplock bag as well to prevent any dripping. There is a sliding clip arrangement on the side of the tank that holds the pipe support bracket, you'll have to free this, then you'll be able to lift the entire tank out.

When you get the tank and centre column out, remove the filters from the centre column, and clean their gauze in petrol with a small paint brush. Also clean the main tank, as it will be full of sludge. Clean the filter housing column too. I would also use petrol for these, as you want something that evaporates, and alcohol is harmful to the seals used in the system.

When everything is clean, and had time to dry in the sun, position the tank back in the car, and then before putting the centre column in, I'd pour 4 litres of oil in to start with.

(The total system has 5.4 litres, but approx half a litre stays in the piping)

Drop the centre back in, and reconnect all the pipes if necessary with new jubilee clips, however the one going to the pump (front most from memory) make sure it is primed by pouring some oil into the pipe before connecting it.

Now start the engine with the bleed screw still OPEN, and watch though the filler hole with a torch and you may see a bit of frothing or bubbling - this is the air that was in the feed pipe to the pump due to disconnecting it, and its important to get this air out before closing the bleed screw otherwise it will travel into the main system.

About 3 minutes of idling should be enough to get rid of any air in the pump loop, and the oil in the tank should be calm like a millpond in the main area, although it is normal for there to be a little bit of non-frothy bubling inside the filter gauze.

Assuming any frothing has stopped, close the bleed screw and return the car to normal height. If that lifts ok, then lift it to intermediate height and watch the tank level sight and if it starts to go below the normal reading (orange disc between the two lines) top it up as the car is still lifting.

It's important not to let the tank run out while lifting or you will pump a huge lot of air into the system.

Now lift the height to maximum and do the same - watch the level gauge and top up as necessary until it stabalizes and the level is correct.

Now do a few rounds of Citrerobics for good measure. (In theory if you did a careful job, no air will have got into the system, but better safe than sorry)

If the old oil was dirty or a different colour I'd suggest now going through a normal front and rear brake bleeding process - the first oil that comes out that is dirty or a different colour, chuck it out, until you get to clean new oil which you can then recycle.

Remember not to take more than about a 1/4 of a litre at a time before topping up the tank level again - it's best to do it on full suspension height so you can monitor the tank level.

Done!

Ok, auto box, I assume this is a Series 1 with the 4HP14 ? If it's a Series 2 with the AL4, or a V6 auto STOP as they are a semi-specialist job and they need special not-off-the-shelf oil too. If its a Series 1, continue. :)

You want Dexron II or Dexron IID compatible oil, NOT Dexron III. I use Castrol Transmax M.

You'll need a funnel that is a tight fit on the end of the gearbox dipstick tube, as you need to use the funnel like a header tank. A plastic kitchen funnel with the spout trimmed a bit makes a good choice. You'll also need a fairly accurate 1 litre measuring container - a clear kitchen measuring/pouring vessel is a good choice. (But dont use it for food again :lol: )

You have to warm the gearbox up to normal operating temperature (80-90 degrees) so you need to go for a reasonably sprighty 30 minute drive at open road speeds. Come back and drive the car up onto some ramps or other supports, as the gearbox oil plugs are well back.

There are two drain plugs on the gearbox, one on the sump and one on the torque converter. Both are 5mm allen keys, and they are TIGHT, so you'll need a good quality allen key with a long shank. Unfortunately I only had one with a short shank and I found myself having to use a spanner as an extra lever. :oops: They will seem like they're not going to let go then suddenly they will release.

It's probably beneficial to do the top one first, and then the bottom to reduce the amount of time the top one dribbles. When its finished clean and refit both plugs.

Beware of a bolt that looks like an allen bolt with a locknut on it - do NOT turn this, it's something to do with one of the adjustments in the gearbox and you will get in serious strife if you turn it by mistake.

Now comes a tricky bit - if possible, push the car back down onto level ground before filling, obviously you can't run the engine at the moment.

Now using your funnel, pour in EXACTLY 2 litres of new oil. It takes 2.4 litres, but its critical that it doesn't get overfilled so you start with a little bit less then check and top up.

Haynes recommends pouring it through a gauze, but if your funnels and containers etc are all spotlessly clean I don't see the need, and the gauze makes it an extremely slow and tedious process.

After putting in 2 litres start the engine and let it idle, you can only check the gearbox oil level with it idling... yeah, strange I know. With the engine not running the level is usually higher, so let it idle for a minute before taking a reading so the dipstick tube can drain to the actual level.

If the dipstick has 3 marks, you want to be between the top two marks. Unlike engine oil where you usually want it at the top mark you want it half way between the two top marks as too full is a serious condition on an autobox. It's critical that you don't allow it to be over the top mark.

Top it up a little bit at a time until its correct. Leave the engine idling while you do this, and wait at least a minute between pouring and level checking.

When you're done, go for a quick drive around the block, and then check the oil level once more with the engine running, and if necessary top it up to halfway between the two marks again.

Done!

Because you're only changing 2.4 litres of 6.2 litres with each change, its not really a "change" but rather diluting the old oil with new oil. That means if the old oil is really disgustingly dirty or suspected to be the wrong oil (like Dexron III) then you have to do several changes in a row with about 500 miles travel between each change to flush it.

I'm in the process of doing this (3rd change due shortly) due to the oil being dirty brown in mine with no service history to say what has happened to it. Now that I've done a couple I find them easier to do than engine oil changes!

Regards,
Simon
Last edited by Mandrake on 05 Apr 2006, 23:29, edited 6 times in total.
Simon

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Post by AndersDK »

Alec wrote:I got the procedure for changing LHM from Anders it was spot on. Hopefully he reads this as I can't find my copy.
Simon LOVES to write loooooong posts ... 8)

... as I used to do years ago :wink:
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rossnunn
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Post by rossnunn »

aaah great stuff.
Xants a 1999 on a V so its a ph2 jobbie :( its a 2.0 16v petrol with 137k on the clock running & is like new. I have no information after going through the recipts of a oil change, so I'm thinking its probably best to get it changed.
So which bits are non-off-the-shelf bits? I'm very surprised if its a dealer job.
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Post by Mandrake »

Hi,

With the AL4 autobox in the Series 2, it's supposedly "sealed for life" and there is no oil change schedule for it like there is with the 4HP14.

However the oil CAN be changed, but it doesn't take off the shelf types like Transmax M.

To quote from the Citroen service manual:

"WARNING: The special Citroen oil has a semi-synthetic base and can not be mixed with another oil. The gearbox is lubricated for life"

However it then goes on to describe draining, and refilling the gearbox and how to check the levels, but it DOESN'T say what the oil is, except for the comment that its a special semi-synthetic type.

So my guess is you would have to go through a Citroen dealer to find out what type of oil it is or obtain any. The total oil in the gearbox is 6 litres, and only 3 litres will drain at any given time.

Because of the "sealed for life" design of the AL4 unless you're noticing specific problems with the transmition it might be a case of leaving well enough alone, or getting a dealer to do it...

You wont find any receipts for gearbox oil changes since there is no change schedule for the AL4...(the only time it would normally get drained is while doing work like removing driveshafts)

Regards,
Simon
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

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