Still a Smokey Joe

walcit · Post by **walcit** » 25 Mar 2006, 18:53

Could anybody tell me what sort of symptoms my 1.9d lx xantia would have if the timing was out on it? I recently replaed the cambelt on it (new car to me) and the car starts first time but it smokes like anything on start up together with lumpyness for about 30 secs (this only happens on 1st start of the day - fine other times). The car responds fine when driving and warmed up. Thing is I cantremember if it was lumpy and smokey on coldstarts before changing the cam belt! What sort of symptoms would I have if the pump timing was out for instance? I am getting some recon injectors next week, but people have been telling me it might be the timing after doing the belt. I am not convinced since the car goes well after the first start of the day! any ideas? I am convinced it air in the diesel....

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 25 Mar 2006, 19:25

Diesel engines are utterly sensitive to timing problems. I'd say you would probably have both starting problems and very low pull power if you got the timing wrong.

The risc that you have disturbed the fuel piping during the work is however quite high. If air is getting into the fule on the pump's suction side you will have lumpy running and bluish white smoke on starting.

Both makes (CAV & Bosch) are very sensitive to leaks on the fuel feed hoses, but additionally Bosch pumps are hyper sensitive to leaks in the overflow & return pipings.
Even the smalliest pin hole (by rust) or perished rubber crack is prone to give you problems.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 25 Mar 2006, 22:13

I'm with Anders, one tooth out on the belt will cause it to be very difficult to start and if it does it will run very rough. If it drives normally, try pumping up the primer before you start and see if that helps, if so it could be air ingress, if not, it could be a failed glow plug or low compression. If it drives OK I wouldn't worry about it. Although it would be a good idea to check the glow plugs.

walcit · Post by **walcit** » 31 Mar 2006, 12:10

Thanks for all your views. I changed the injectors.....no difference...even worse. So, just as a last attempt thing, I moved the pump only about half a centimeter towards the engine (looking from front). Turned the key and there was no smoke and lumpyness was gone. How wierd. Hopefully, the problem is now sorted. someone at some stage must have been playing with it or something. Blinking car....its always a simple answer....

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 31 Mar 2006, 14:24

Be careful.... the XUD engine is extremely sensitive to timing and really needs to be timed with a DTI to get it spot on, otherwise your fuel consumption will be rubbish.

Getting the timing right on my engine made the difference between 35mpg and 45mpg.

If you've had to move it by 5mm at the bracket, then I'd say that you were a tooth out on the timing, and this needs to be put right, and the injection pump timed correctly.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 31 Mar 2006, 14:35

f&f -

Just to clarify for the not so experienced readers : a DTI is a diesel timing indicator ?

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 31 Mar 2006, 14:40

Ish... it actually stands for Dial Test Indicator

Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_indicator

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 31 Mar 2006, 15:15

Right thanks

- the standard "peaking" method using the DTI gauge hole in the pump - and the TDC gauge hole at cylinder 1.

walcit · Post by **walcit** » 31 Mar 2006, 19:22

I dont really care about fuel consumption, as long as it doesnt smoke like a house fire everytime it starts up!

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 31 Mar 2006, 21:23

so why on earth do you drive a diesel engined car?

It may also have an effect on the emissions, so you're running a bit of a risk for the MOT.

.... and I'm sure when you loose 10-15mpg, you may want to get it timed properly.