Odd Squeaking Noise Xantia 110

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arry_b
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Odd Squeaking Noise Xantia 110

Post by arry_b »

Gents, A little help please with a problem diagnosis with the parents in law's car.

Car is a year 2000 Xantia HDI 110. It's developed a "chirp" intermittantly when the car is idling, or switching between power on / power off.

It's been to a "ahem" specialist, who has charged £250 ish for changing a gasket somewhere down the back of the engine (sorry - their description is a bit vague) which has made no difference.

The noise is a high pitched chirp - loud enough to make people stare when passing the car. from inside the car it sounded to me like a dry roller bearing, but from outside the car sounds more like it's air-related, or injection related.

Car still drives fine, no loss of power.

I'm clueless with HDIs so would appreciate some poiners on where to look first.

Think I'll stick with the XUD for a while longer, myself.

'arry
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Post by happytorque »

my C5 2.0 HDI does exactly same thing. I complained to my dealer.....said he didnt know what it was ....its never been fixed :?
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Post by Mandrake »

Just one question...

Are you sure its the engine ? Could it be the auxillary belt when the hydraulic pump comes under load ?

If you let the car idle for a while, does the chirp happen at regular intervals ? It could be as simple as an auxillary belt that isn't tight enough, causing a brief chirp each time the pressure regulator cuts in...

My mums 1.9TD makes what I would describe as a brief high pitched chirp/squeak when the pump cuts in, even though the belt is tight. It's loud enough to be audible inside the cabin with the windows closed. (eg pretty loud outside) I'm guessing that the belt needs replacing rather than just tensioning in this case...

Easy theory to test - leave the engine idling with the pressure regulator bleed screw undone half a turn, this takes the load off the pump (and therefore the belt) and see if it still chirps...

If this stops the chirping the auxillary belt probably needs tensioning and/or replacing...

Regards,
Simon
Last edited by Mandrake on 06 Mar 2006, 21:01, edited 1 time in total.
Simon

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Post by arry_b »

The chirp happens at approximately 2 Hz, so probably a bit too frequent for the PR cutting it. (Or is it?).

I've sprayed the belt with silicone spray and it made no difference.

I'll try the PR screw and report back.
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Post by Mandrake »

You mean the chirp happens a couple of times per second ? Hmm...

If the accumulator sphere was flat, the pressure regulator can cycle extremely quickly. It can also put a lot of extra load on the pump. (To the point of risking damaging something)

Regards,
Simon
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Post by arry_b »

Right, been out for a furtle and the plot thickens....

Loosening the PR made no difference. I've not described the noise well - so I can see why you've suggested the Acc sphere, and having had an XM with a duff sphere, I can say it's definately not that.

While the engine was ticking over, and making the squealing / chirping noise I took the engine cover off.

There is a little oil in the wells on top of the engine, but no visible leaks - more of this later.

While the engine was ticking over and making the noise, the thought struck me that it sounded a bit like a cam bearing on its way out, so to get a better listen I removed the filler cap.

Engine is "venting" rather a lot through the cap hole.

Within five seconds the noise had gone.

Cap back on, five seconds later the noise was back.

Cap off, no noise - cap on, noise comes back. Repeat ad-infinitum.

So my theory is that it's something to do with the crankcase ventilation system being blocked.


So my question is, does that sound reasonable. And how to clean out the crankcase ventilation on an HDI?

'arry
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Post by Mandrake »

Hey presto,

Sounds like you're onto the problem :) Sounds like the EGR system is blocked... the noise is probably a press-fit EGR hose somewhere on the system being forced to leak by a buildup of pressure.

Hopefully someone with HDI knowledge will be able to point you in the right direction...

Regards,
Simon
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Post by zzf00l »

Hmmmm now go get your £250 back!!!!
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Post by jeremy »

Does the EGR system have any connection to the crankcase breather system?

If you remove the filler cap and the noise stops I'd have thought that the noise was caused by the crankcase fumes leaking out somewhere and 'whistling' as they were squeezed through something - probably past the filler cap washer. If this is the case it sounds rather serious to me especially if there are oil leaks at the top of the engine. XUD's don't seem to blow much even at enormous mileages and I see no reason why the HDi should be bifferent. It may be that there is a blockage somewhere.

I've never encountered an EGR system so my knowledge is rather limited. I know they are operated by a pump - and so could pick up crankcase fumes - in which case that system would be a candidate for causing the problem.
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Post by Mandrake »

Sorry, my mistake. I didn't mean EGR... I mean't the crankcase fume collection and reburning system... :oops:

Regards,
Simon
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Post by Kowalski »

jeremy wrote: I've never encountered an EGR system so my knowledge is rather limited. I know they are operated by a pump - and so could pick up crankcase fumes - in which case that system would be a candidate for causing the problem.
EGR systems are just a valve between the exhaust and inlet manifolds. All that they do is to allow the engine to suck in some of its exhaust instead of sucking in fresh air. Generally diesels run very weak mixes with a lot of excess oxygen, this excess oxygen tends to combine with nitrogen to produce nitrogen oxides which aren't good for the environment. EGR reduces the amount of free oxygen going into then engine, its only really at low throttle levels that it works, it cant work at higher levels on a TD since the turbo produces positive boost pressure which would try to make the EGR work backwards, i.e. dumping boost pressure into the exhaust bypassing the engine.

As Mandrake has already pointed out anyway, he didn't mean EGR. I tend to agree with his correction, a blocked breather would cause the engine to pressurise itself, you want to get this sort of thing sorted out fairly quickly because if it gets a large build up of pressure you can end up with an engine that will blow its seals out and start chucking oil out.

On the XUD at least there is a breather hose that goes from the head to the intake, it connects just after the air box. This hose has an inline oil trap to stop the engine from burning too much oil, I've never seen one of these blocked on an XUD but it happens fairly commonly on other engines. The fact that its blocked on your engine (HDI) could mean that the oil hasn't been changed often enough earlier in the engine's life.
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Post by arry_b »

Thank you everyone for your help. I've passed the info on to F-I-L, and if he manages to sort it out, I'll let you all know what it was.

'arry
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Post by arry_b »

Update: and not a happy one.....

Despite the advice on here, F-I-L took the car to Citroen for a diagnostic who charged him an hour's labour, and diagnosed a duff turbo (which was the specialist who changed the gasket's second guess). 98% certain, they said. I remained with the unconvinced 2%.

They then charged him £1200 to change the turbo.

Needless to say, they started the car to drive it home after paying the bill. Same noise. No different.

<sigh> Why are main dealers such crooks? And why do people fall for it?

'arry
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Post by Mandrake »

arry_b wrote:Update: and not a happy one.....

Despite the advice on here, F-I-L took the car to Citroen for a diagnostic who charged him an hour's labour, and diagnosed a duff turbo (which was the specialist who changed the gasket's second guess). 98% certain, they said. I remained with the unconvinced 2%.

They then charged him £1200 to change the turbo.

Needless to say, they started the car to drive it home after paying the bill. Same noise. No different.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
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2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
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Post by AndersDK »

I bet F-I-L wont allow you to touch it now ! - I mean "its already been very costly sonny" ...
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