Xantia kerbweight

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zeersplat
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Xantia kerbweight

Post by zeersplat »

Ive got a 2.0xantia HDi 110 saloon.

In the cars handbook it says the unladen weight is 1361kg. Ive been checking on the interenet and some sites give the kerbweight as 1361kg. This is confusing me as when I bought my caravan I calculated the kerbweight of the car from the unladen weight figure and came to the conclusion the combination was OK. Do any of you folks have the answer? I want to work out the weight ratio of the van to car which is based on the kerbweight.
Hope this makes sense Thanks John
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

Are those figures correctly quoted?
jeremy
zeersplat
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Post by zeersplat »

Hi Jeremy

yes I am looking at the handbook now, Its unladen weight for 2.0 Hdi (110 hp). The gross vechicle weight is given as 1910kg

John
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Post by jeremy »

Gross vehicle weight is the maximum loaded weight of the car - ie a combination of fuel, passengers and luggage. I think the UK authorities accept this as being the same as Maximum Authorised Mass. (this may upest Physicists - I hope so as I think its a bit of a broad brush approach and if someone would like to explain properly I'd be interested in the answer.)

I raised the initial query as you had quoted the same figure twice - which didn't seem to fit the context.

Kerb weight is the weight of the car in useable condition - ie something like tools as supplied, fuel for 50 miles.
jeremy
martyhopkirk

Post by martyhopkirk »

Image

It will probably tow it OK - mine does (BX + 700KG trailer + Fuel + spares + fat bloke) and mines the 90BHP one :twisted:
zeersplat
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Post by zeersplat »

I am confused as the handbook states that the unladen weight is 1361 KG, which to me indicates that the kerb weight will be higher. ie with allowance for, driver 68KG, fuel 52 Kg, luggage 11kg giving a kerbsideweight of 1492kg. The kerbside weight is used in calculations used for stabilty when towing. The unladen weight is also used by the licencing authority to establish what type of licence is required when towing. Its a real mess that only governments could think up.
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Post by zeersplat »

martyhopkirk
is that my old bx tour towing there? :)
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np
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Post by np »

My hand book states the unladen weight of my VSX TD Est as 1360kg.
Now,on the weigh bridge at my old place of work(which was calibrated every 3 mths),the weight of my car,with nothing in it,& with the fuel light on,was 1540 kg.Last year when i was working in a quarry,i used both of their weigh bridges,the figures i got were 1560kg,& 1540kg.All 3 bridges weigh to the nearest 20kg`s.All 3 bridges were used to weigh goods lorrys in & out,& give a weight ticket for the drivers,so had to be pretty acurate.
So i take the Citroen figure with a pinch of salt my self.
Our caravan has a MAXIMUM weight of 1300kg,with a unladen weight of 1001kg.
Working on the max loaded weight,& the figure in the hand book for the car,i think i worked out our towing weight as 94%.The caravan club recommend a figure of 85%,but say there there is nothing wrong with 100%,as long as the car can take it,acording to the manual.I`ve been towing with my Xantia for 4 yrs now at 94%,& never had any probs.I`m still running on the same suspension spheres as when i got the car.
53`406 est SE Hdi 140,110k
zeersplat
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Post by zeersplat »

Hi Neil
My van has a max weight of 1470kg and I have been a bit bothered that it was to light to tow the caravan. Before I bought the van I worked out the kerb weight of the car to be 1492kg based on the unladen weight of the car from the handbook. This gave a percentage of 98% which was ok as I consider myself to be an experienced tower, so I bought it. The figures I used were

unladen wt 1361
driver 68
luggage 11
fuel 52
Kerb wt 1492

Since getting the van I have started to worry that I worked it out wrong. Your figures are even heavier so that’s good. If I can find a weighbridge near I will weigh the car myself (will I be tempting fate if I use a scrappy’s weigh bridge)

That’s put my mind at ease a bit. I don’t want to shell out for a 4x4 if I don’t have to. Incidentally the Xantia has pulled the van great up to now including a trip to Wales with more than a few hills, its never faltered. Its definitely the best car I have ever owned.
John
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Post by jeremy »

For driver licencing purposes its the UNLADEN rather than the kerb weight of the towing vehicle that is important and for new drivers since 1997 the MAM of the combination must not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer must not exceed the UNLADEN mass of the towing vehicle. (I know this is not the whole regulation - for more info see leaflet D100 - DVLA website)

MAM is the maximum AUTHORISED (not actual) Mass and is I believe supplied by caravan manufacturers, and I'd have thought that the unladen weight could be safely taken from the manufacturer's info (and heavy accessories like towbars would be considered load rather than part of the unladen mass).

As a matter of interest I weighed my BX TD on a weighbridge (sensitive within 60 kg, reading 20kg - so not that sensitive over 1 tonne) and thought that the manufacturers figure would be about right.

What's interesting is how heavy caravans have got - so much so that I don't think there's much of a half reasonable size that I can tow with my BX TD estate which only weighs 1120kg.
jeremy
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Post by np »

John,we`ve been down to Rome & back with the Xantia & caravan,no probs.I`ve had mine boosted to 115bhp,185 lbft torque,which pulls the van a dream.I`m currently working in Lands End at the mo,so am staying on site in our `van.Ok,so a bit more omph on the longer hills would be better,but all round,its the best tow car i`ve had.My Dad`s 406 110Hdi tows it better,but without the Xantia`s suspension,the rear of the car sags a fair bit.I weighed our caravan`s nose weight at 105 kgs.The hand book states a Max nose wieght of 85 kg.But its been fine in the 4 yrs i`ve had it.I`m just about to replace the spheres soon after 4 yrs/55k miles,as the ride is starting to get harsh.So the weight has`nt seemed to have made any difference. :)
Jeremy,agree about the caravan weight getting higher.Our van is a 94 ABI,top of the range 2 berth.Our 1st van was a 79 ABI top of the range 2 berth,it was 500 kgs lighter loaded than our current van.Both have the same level of equipment.I supose the extra 4 ft of length & being better built makes it heavy.Plus the fact that nowadays people want a home from home in their vans,with full size fridges,cookers microwaves etc.
All adds to the weight. :)
53`406 est SE Hdi 140,110k
zeersplat
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Post by zeersplat »

Thanks Jeremy

what you say confirms my understanding of the law. But as I understand it because I passed my test before 1997 that part of the act does not affect me. What I was trying to establish was that the kerbweight of the car was more than the MAM of the caravan.

With this combination the Car is 1492kg kerb wt
Mam of van is max 1470kg

So car is heavier than the van that’s what I was concerned about. And the max train weight is within the limit of 3400kg with the car fully loaded at 1910kg

My concern at the beginning of this post was that the unladen weight as published by Citroen was infact the kerbweight and not the unladen weight.
My brain is starting to hurt now
:?
John
Life is not a rehearsal
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

Certainly for my BX Citroen describe it as unladen. In days past kerb weights were described - probably due to the difficulty of getting the thing empty to weigh it!

In 1990 What Car published the kerb weight for the BX TZD turbo Estate as 21.6 cwt, Citroen claim 1077 kg UNLADEN and Glass's technical info claims a KERB weight of 1077 kg. - So confusion seems universal!
jeremy
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Post by DoubleChevron »

Hmm,

a 1.5ton van is a bloody big heavy caravan. I wouldn't be fussed to tow it any distance with a Xantia .... For starters I doubt my Xantia could get it over 80km/h along anything other than flat ground and downhills.... You would be road raged off the road in no time.

The biggest issue I have with the Xantia is the tongue weight. It's simply pathetic. Maximum allowed tongue weight is 75kgs. For safeties sake you need 10% of the trailer/caravan weight on the hitch. This means here in Australia, even though the specs say the Xantia can tow 1200kgs, it can only in reality tow 750kg given the tongue weight allowed. (caravans out here have tongue weight requirements. The Xantia can't tow most 16' caravans out here as it doesn't have the tonque weight capacity). Yes I know in reality you could put several hundred kilgrams on the Xantias tongue with no issues. The problem is if you are involved in an accident with the caravan on. The first thing the insurance company will do is check the ball weight and gross weight of the caravan. If it's over there is no doubt they will reneg on any insurance claim.

The CX has much the same issue, only a 75kg tongue weight allowed. It isn't such an issue as it's not stamped anywhere on the towbar or listed anywhere other thant he factory manual (as the car is so old).

seeya,
Shane L.
'96 Big BX 2.1TD exclusive slugomatic (aka XM)
'85 CX2500 GTi Turbo Series II (whoo hooo)
'96 Xantia VSX slugomatic (sold !!)
and of course, lots of old Citroens, slowly rusting away in pieces ;)
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Post by Mandrake »

The crazy thing about a "tongue weight" (downwards weight on the towbar under static conditions I assume you mean?) rating of 75Kg's is that as soon as you drive up a hill, there is far more weight than this loading the towbar due to the simple fact that you are pulling the towed vehicle up a hill :roll:

So if you were going up a 1/5 gradient and the caravan was 1200Kg thats an extra 240Kg of load on the towbar....(simplified calculation I know... to do it properly you'd have to know the centre of gravity location of the caravan and work out the loading for different uphill and downhill angles...)

Regards,
Simon
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
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1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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