Xantia 1.9 TD N reg. - Middle sphere

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 12 Feb 2006, 00:51

A couple of questions.

I have recently acquired this car, locally, which had failed(?) it's pre-MOT due to slight leakage at or around the middle (5th.) sphere
I haven't had the opportunity to thoroughly examine this but a cursory look showed a coating of oil on the sphere housing bracket and a wee teardrop of oil about to drip. The previous (lady) owner said that the LHM level did not seem to be dropping and that there was not any signs of pools of oil under the car - seems to be a slow but persistent seepage.

This sphere is new to me although I have owned and maintained BX's in the past, and I understand it's function is to hold the pressure in the system to stop the car sinking (?)

I can see no evidence that the pipe leading to the sphere has been twisted by an uneducated attempt to remove the sphere without removing the pipe union so... is this likely to be just a deteriorated pipe seal or something more complicated ? There appears to be an associated valve but I could not really get a good look at this. Do these give any leakage problems ?

The car rides fine, seems to have been reasonably well maintained and everything else seems to be OK except the speedo. I'm told that this packed up a couple of months ago.
Again a quick look did not reveal any sign of a speedo cable at the bulkhead.
Could the speedo be an electronic one ? It does not have an LCD display 'window' as I have seen in a more modern version of the car.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Dave.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 12 Feb 2006, 09:06

Firstly the centre sphere, This is probably the one that gives you most of the suspension movement when the computer is set to the 'soft' mode, they dont usually leak unless they have been improperly fitted, so check that the fluid isnt coming from somwhere else and running on to it. If it is leaking, its probably just a question of removing it and fitting a new seal.

The speedometer is indeed electrically driven by a sensor on the gearbox/transmission - somewhere.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 12 Feb 2006, 09:41

Unless I'm mistaken Peter, he's refering to the anti-sink sphere....

Dave - the pipe in the anti-sink sphere has a rubber seal like those on other pipe unions, and its possible that it is missing.

When the pipe is removed the seal usually stays in the sphere hole and the uninitiated may not notice that and fit the union into the new sphere without a seal, so check if the seal is fitted.

I'm not sure if there is a special procedure to depressurize the anti-sink sphere however as I've never done one, so others may correct me here, but I'd try:

Set the height lever down with the engine idling for about 3 minutes, then turn off the engine and open the pressure regulator bleed screw, then pump the brake pedal about 20-30 times...

Regards,
Simon

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 12 Feb 2006, 12:13

Thanks for the replies.

I should have added that the car is not a hydractive version. The sphere in question is located towards the rear and in the centre of the car.
The LHM tank is overfilled - checked at full service height - as seems to be the case with with a lot of Citroens. Why do people do that ?

The car has done only 78K (SH confirms) apart from the few miles not recorded since the speedo packed in and, from my brief foray underneath, the pipework looks original.

I will have a mooch around for the speedo sensor when it stops raining although, living in Wales, that could be some time.

Dave.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 12 Feb 2006, 15:08

Mandrake.

Sorry if thats so. I have never had one with anti sink, so I ussumed it was the centre suspension sphere he was refering to. That will be my third mistake in a week!

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 12 Feb 2006, 15:22

It's not your mistake Peter but mine for not describing the set up clearly.
In actual fact it wouldn't be the 5th. sphere but the 6th. if you count the pressure reg. as well !!

When I can, I will split the pipe union and have a probe around for a seal.
I assume that no extra precautions are needed other than the usual system depressurising at the PR ??

Dave.

dnsey · Post by **dnsey** » 12 Feb 2006, 15:42

How can you tell? It might be the first or the third

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 12 Feb 2006, 16:43

dnsey,

Ah, yes !
You could well be correct but I don't think this is the place for delving further into what could become a philosophical diversion. ....

Dave.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 25 Feb 2006, 15:48

Finally got round to looking at the seeping anti-sink sphere.

The pipe union was slightly loose caused, I think, by the fact that the sphere was also loose - about a quarter turn !

Should there be any form of locking washer or rubber seal between the sphere face and the mounting bracket. ????
I couldn't find anything on mine !

Dave.

BonceChops · Post by **BonceChops** » 25 Feb 2006, 17:51

Not that I can remember when I changed mine.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 25 Feb 2006, 19:40

DaveW wrote:Should there be any form of locking washer or rubber seal between the sphere face and the mounting bracket. ????

No -
It should look like a recess on the joint. And you nipped up the sphere by hand only - no tools - right ?
Exactly like you do an oil filter.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 25 Feb 2006, 21:41

That's interesting.
So what is there to stop it coming loose again ? Unlike the wheel cylinder spheres which have a fluid pressure on them that will help to lock them in place, this has a direct pipe coupling to the body of the sphere. I find it hard to believe that just tightening it onto the painted bracket is sufficient to hold it permanently in place without some form of anti-slip washer or locknut.
I can't see anything in the service/repair history indicating that work had been done on that sphere so I assume it is original. There is no sign of rust on the threads and only superficial traces on the contact face.

Dave.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 25 Feb 2006, 22:14

The thing that keeps it tight is what keeps any bolt tight - friction.

You don't have hydraulic pressure holding any normal bolts in a car

Remember that it is a very fine thread, with a very shallow pitch, which will grip better than your average bolt, and also when you are doing it up "hand tight" you have the leverage of the sphere body diameter helping you.

If you're worried about it I can't see that a slight "nip" with a sphere tool would do any harm in this case...

Regards,
Simon

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » 25 Feb 2006, 22:21

Thanks Simon.
I'll reassemble it with a new seal.

Dave.