AntiRollBar Link....?

[doofah]

Hi,

I bought a xantia last year, 1.9TD SX, 1993, a good lil motor in fantastic visual condition, lots of service history....

1 month later the hydraulic lines split at the front, I was doing 70mph, stop light came on, car bounced, brakes barely worked but managed to get pulled onto the hard shoulder and sit and wait for the AA to take me home. (a story in itself)

After that there was an intermittant clunking noise from the front, which worsened and became more of a heavy rattle. Took her to the garage and they replaced the offside anti-rollbar link. Problem solved.

For roughly a week. Then a much quieter Clunk of the same type (under the same conditions - high gear low speed, turning onto downward slopes, clutch down and brakes applied in the last few meters before a red light generally any situation where there is little forward pull from the engine)

This thunk doesn't appear to be growing at all, and was forgotted amid Brake problems (lack of brakes), Alternator problems, loss of lights, and now loss of indicators (relay it seems, they don't click at all) but i figure I'll throw this out for you guys to say "I know what that is!!"

I'm thinking either anti-rollbar link again or driveshaft... my scan through the invoices shows that the car goes through both ARB links every year!! That can't be right!!

Comments???

Doofs

[andmcit]

Possibly sounds a bit like the good old bottom engine mounting donut, where the whole engine does it's jiggly attempt to somersault when there's torque through the drivetrain.

There's a knack to moving dead hydraulic cits and the AA guys don't get shown it!

I've educated a few over the years showing them the dodges to get a pressureless car up to a normal running altitude or even max height to allow correct attack angles on the ramps/beaver tail spectacle etc...

They don't seem to tell their mates though. Mind, recently one guy told me he wasn't allowed to use a trolley jack anymore due to H&S regs or somesuch rubbish - has to use the "approved" spare wheel puncture jack that's supplied with the car being rescued apparently. Also don't want to 'invalidate' someone's warranty...

Heard a story about a DB7 having it's sump ripped off when it was lifed onto a flatbed and the engine was a write off. AM guy who made it apparently nearly cried when he was told it was due to the driver misfueling the car's tank!

Andrew

[Peter.N.]

Anti roll bar droplinks are a common cause of trouble, it could be that the other side needs replacing as well. CV joints can also cause problems but make more of a 'clicking' noise when driving slowley on full or part lock.

If you lost your brakes with hydraulic failure, your accumulator sphere probably wants changing, if you listen to the engine when ticking over, you will hear an intermittent clicking noise, which is the hydraulic regulator cutting in and out, with a good sphere this should happen about once in 30 seconds, much more frequently, and the sphere wants replacing.

Sorry to hear about all your problems, but it is a Citroen, and it will be very nice when you've got them all fixed!

[paulbx]

Be good to know!

[andmcit]

Be good to know!

The principle is easy enough once you're familiar with the actual design/layout of the particular car you need to move that's powerless!!

Most IF NOT ALL [!!] of the Citroen hydraulic systems rely on rubber rebound bump stops at the ends of the wheel's tavel. What you'll need to do is effectively lock the front wishbone or trailing arm [or whatever!!] into it's max height position by bracing the gap between the suspension unit and it's rubber stop.

The easier cars to lift up and keep up with FULL steering are the Gs and Cx as their suspension was designed properly!!

The rear end is easier to suport as generally they are by trailing arms; MUCH easier to support as they usually have a large cast paddle part which can be seen from the side of the car [easily on the Cx in it's rear axle tube on the subframe and similar but behind a wheelarch liner on the Xm] into which you can position a suitable wooden block [or stong stone!] about 2.5" square/round.

The Xantia works on a flat spot on the actual trailing arm against a rubber cone on the car's underside bodywork and I have no reason to doubt the Bx is the same although I've never had to do this on one yet.

The fronts on the Gs/Cx are similarly supported if you look out for the top wishbone rebound/bump stop paddle in their front subframe.

The fiddle is at the front on the Mcpherson strut cars. These are slightly more awkward as there isn't an upper wishbone with paddle bumpstop but the strut itself instead.

The Xm/Xantia struts have a tag shoulder that runs off the main strut tube that the drop link bolts through. You need to brace USING VERY STOUT timber [maple is my choice - 7" long by 1x2"] between the drop link tag shoulder and the 'crown' of the wheelarch - I've done this to drive a failed strut Xm to my garage to actually straighten it out.

Obviously it goes without saying the drop link tag SWIVELS with the strut when the steering is turned so this is really only practical for driving the car onto a trailer etc.

BTW, these methods mentioned are not bodges, but accepted methods [WITH THE OFFICIAL CITROEN TOOL!!] for keeping a car in suspension whilst being worked on/stored in the dealer workshop...

I'VE EVEN SCRAMBLED ABOUT AT THE ROADSIDE IN THE PAST AT A BREAKDOWN TO SUPPORT A CAR BEFORE IT DROPS DOWN AND MR AA MAN ARRIVES 2 HOURS LATER!!

Hope this all makes sense and helps in some way, hopefully to save a good car with a 'blown' pipe etc from being scrapped as it's difficult to move.

All the best,
Andrew

[stevieb]

From personal experience I'd say check the lower balljoints (I assume the setup is similar to the 405 I had). My nearside one was shot (the ball must've been 5mm smaller than the socket it was in ), and had clonked since I bought the car, but had never been noticed at any MoT, including some main dealer ones.

You need to get the wheel clear of the ground and watch the balljoint whilst somebody else forces the wheel in all possible directions. That's the only way I sussed out my clonk - after five years

The alternative (again assuming a similar setup to the 405), is the front wishbone rear bush, this may clonk when turning, yet may not show up at any other time (including MoT time).

[doofah]

Thanks guys

I was lucky, the first AA bloke knew nothing of cits but I told him he will NOT tow it lol, so he called another guy with a flatbed, thankfully, he owned a BX and knew the score, a flatbed was called out and I was taken home - the scenic route.... his GPS was about as useful as a fiestas cooling system.

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions, i'll be looking into as many of those as possible this weekend.

Have discovered a missing anti-rattle clip from the drivers side front brakes!!! Can you just buy these??? Rip off cowboy garage must have decided not to replace it.

thanks again!!

Doofs

[dnsey]

my scan through the invoices shows that the car goes through both ARB links every year!! That can't be right!!

Hmmm... that does sound a bit worrying!
There are some poor quality droplinks available which don't last long, but not many people would carry on using them time after time - would they?

Check that the balljoint on your new link is well greased - it may be almost dry (they often come like that for some reason), and rattling as a result.

[AndersDK]

Have discovered a missing anti-rattle clip from the drivers side front brakes!!! Can you just buy these???
Doofs

Bet you need a complete front brakes fitting kit. The usual stuff with small lock pins springs etc. Would be a 5'er (comes in sets for 2 wheels) at most I guess. Same place as you would buy pads & discs.

BTW : sorted the indicators ? If the emergency switch operates all indicator lights - the indicator relay is working perfect. Its a common problem that the emergency lights switch itself fails in resting position - where the current paths is switched for normal indicators function.
Some workout on the emergency switch button may do the trick.

[andmcit]

The anti rattle is part of a kit [number 7 in the pic]:



0442763 BRAKE PAD SPRING KIT 26.54 31.18

They pop off the caliper easily enough - can you not get some off one in a yard somewhere.

Andrew

[AndersDK]

What
31 quid for a standard fitting kit - rip off
Try anywhere else than Citroen

[doofah]

Ouch yeah thats expensive! i'll head to the scrappy this weekend

Still no joy wiuth the indicators... but as you say, using the hazard lights spurs them into life, usually (sometimes even the hazards don't work)...

I've changed the flasher unit for new, but with no difference other than the odd click every now and again when the indicators are off...

Can't find the relay - how do we take get to the rear of the fuse box???

[AndersDK]

I believe you have 2 problems in one :

The odd ticker now & then is a wellknown problem :
thats the indicator stalk switch suffering from carbon tracing such the indicators just barely reach the onset of (fast) blink level.
Several owners have tried "overhauling" the switch - just to see the problem is the same in short time. Replacing is the only remedy it seems.

The missing indicators function seems to be the emergency switch. This switch closes its own circuit - independent of the stalk switch. Meaning if you have indicators problem go away playing with this switch - its defective (corroded internally).

The indicators relay seems to work for ever - and tends to go completely dead in the middle of a blink - if it ever fails. But the socket clamp pins may get a loose connection over time.

A bit busy you will be at the scrappy

[doofah]

Acks...

Having discovered that the clips for the steering column cover have been snapped and then heat glued back together, I guess someone has been in and played around trying to fix this problem before..

Will go for the new stalk first... i think...

[KennyW]

Hi Doofah,

Re your knocking in the front steering /suspension.
I recently did the rear bushes on the lower wishbone of front suspension and since then the drop links have been rattling.
I was having problems with the wheel alignment and tyre wear which even my MOT tester didn't spot. I did ask him to thoroughly check the suspension/steering.Eventually the problem was identified as above.
About to replace same with a pair which i've sourced for £5-95 + Vat !!!!!!