poor starting(again!)

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 05 Dec 2005, 10:38

hi everybody,I posted last week about my xantia which was reluctant to start,thanks to everyone who replied.The general opinion seemed to be faulty glow plugs.I had new ones fitted last wednesday and the car started first time the next morning so i thought the problem was fixed.however i didn't use the car over the weekend,and when i went to start it this morning it wouldn't start at all,which is worse than ever,because before it would usually go eventually.The glow plug light is coming on and i'm waiting for it to go out before attempting to start it.i should add that the car was driving fine when warm and starting with no problems once warmed up.i would really appreciate any ideas and thanks once again to everybody who posted before.suzie.

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 05 Dec 2005, 11:02

Could it also be a glow plug relay problem, try spraying some WD-40 on the connectors. The relay is bolted on to the fuse box which is on the right hand side of the engine, its just simply bolted onto the front face of the fuse/relay box holder, just unclip the connector which connects in from the bottom and spray, did this to my bro in laws newly acquired ZX and this certainly helped after 3 glowplugs were changed (couldnt get the 4th one done, anybody want to guess which one is was

) thats being removed Thursday when the cambelt and water pump is done. I dont know of any other things it could be as im no mechanic but sometimes a simple solution can sometimes be the only solution.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 05 Dec 2005, 11:03

Sounds suspiciously like the glowplug relay post-heat timer may not be turning off properly. The glowplugs were no doubt working properly when first fitted, but have now burned out again.

Try this. Put the interior light on, and turn the ignition on. Wait for the glowplug lamp to go out, and then keep waiting. After another 20 seconds or so, there should be an audible "clunk" as the glowplug relay switches off. Does the interior light get brighter at the same time? If it doesn't, then the glowplugs weren't drawing any current.

I'd go back to the place who changed them, as they really should have checked the timers were working properly.

If the test above shows that the plugs are at least working a bit (the lamp gets brighter when you hear the click) then try running the glowplugs 2 or 3 times, then start the engine... does it now run?

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 05 Dec 2005, 11:13

Im getting the hang of this Citroen lark, wonder if my pic works?

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 05 Dec 2005, 13:30

thanks for the quick response guys,we went out and put a 12v tester on the supply cable to the glow plugs and earth as suggested in the haynes manual and when the ignition is turned on the lamp lights and goes out about 15 seconds after the glow plug light on the dash.this seems to suggest that the relay/timer is working as it should.am I right?If the relay is working properly,then surely the glow plugs would not have burnt out.has anyone got any other ideas about what it could be?perhaps a fuel problem?someone suggested i check the fuel priming bulb,which i've done and it is quite soft and i've pumped it till it's firm(if you know what i mean!)but to no avail.help!

James.UK · Post by **James.UK** » 05 Dec 2005, 13:48

Hi Suze. Did the bulb on the hand primer stay hard or did it get soft again fairly quickly? The valve inside may be allowing fuel to go back to the fuel tank.

If that's the case, you may need a new one.

There are two other threads running this topic at the moment, so reading them may give you some more clues and ideas.

JohnT · Post by **JohnT** » 05 Dec 2005, 16:55

I agree with James...if I leave my Xantia for more than a couple of days I have the same problem. Yes, the pre heat system is working OK.

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 05 Dec 2005, 18:52

thanks to everybody who replied.do you guys think it would be worth replacing this fuel primer bulb or could it be something more serious,or another fault with the fuel system?how hard should these bulbs be?the one on my car seems quite soft,when you squeeze it you can hear the fuel sloshing about.if it is the bulb,are these relatively easy to get hold of?or main dealer only?thanks again everybody,suzie.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 05 Dec 2005, 18:58

The hand primer bulb is a cheap spare part. Other problems could be dried out rubber fuel lines known by the characteristic surface hairline crackings. Very easy to see when the rubber is bent a bit.

Fuel lines are standard car parts cheaply available everywhere. Its the labour involved replacing the lines that is costly.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 05 Dec 2005, 21:22

Even if the glowplug timer is working, the post-heat timer may still be causing problems (or have caused problems). The test you've done confirms that the pre-heat timer is working properly, but all 4 plugs may still have failed.

Did running the plugs 2/3 times before trying to start the car have any effect at all?

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 05 Dec 2005, 21:56

try taking out glowplugs and put across battery and see if they work,if ok then try and park car on hill nose down so it stops fuel returning to tank if ok then you know what is causing your problem,check for small cracks in hoses from tank to pump and also check spill pipes on injectors they go hard and crack then allow air to seep in over nite

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 06 Dec 2005, 14:13

thanks for all your replies and advice.just phoned my local citroen dealer and asked about the priming bulb and the guy there said it won't help with any starting problems,he said they only replace them if they're split.i was going to get it anyway but changed my mind when he said it was £35 +vat!he wanted me to book it in to get checked out but there's no way i'm paying main dealer prices for a car that's only worth a few hundred quid!i squeezed it till it was hard this morning and it started no problem,but as i'm sure you can all appreciate i'm reluctant to fork out £35 if it's not that.does this bulb really have that much influence on starting?thanks once again,suzie.

mezuk04 · Post by **mezuk04** » 06 Dec 2005, 14:25

Im sure you can get them for about £20...wont GSF stuock them at all?

James.UK · Post by **James.UK** » 06 Dec 2005, 14:33

Hi Suzie. The bulb is a hand pump used to bring fuel from your tank to the pump. It has a one way valve inside it. Without the valve the fuel will just run back to the tank every time you stop the engine.

It is also very usefull, erm essential almost? when you get problems starting, erm like this one?

But.. As its so easy to get at and remove, why not go to a scrapyard, and get one out of the newest car you can find, I seriously doubt it will cost more than £4 or £5 ..

And if you smile nicely at the lad, he might even fit it for you..

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 06 Dec 2005, 16:58

your return pipe is perished and is allowing fuel to return overnite,join in pipe down by subframe new one comes supply and return joined together fitted 100's of them.