306 Hdi 90 Ticking/Flapping Sound/Noise

gwailo · Post by **gwailo** » 01 Dec 2005, 16:05

I have recently purchased a W reg 2000 306 Hdi DTurbo and is runs very well, strong torque throughout the rev range, have not had chance test economy yet but there is a ticking/flapping kind of noise when the engine is under load. I have checked out the other posts which mention the crankshaft pulley disintegration problem and also the leaky injector problem though what I am not sure if I should expect these kind of problems on my car which has covered just 45000 miles. My brother had tested an HDi 90 a few months ago and reckoned that it also made a similar noise so as one post suggested on this forum - these Hdi do make this kind of sound on acceleration tho it does seems quite loud and I would not expect them to come new out of the factory sound like this. Can anyone advise on whether I should expect the two forementioned problems at 45k miles?

ps I take it the noise on turning the ignition key to the first possition is the fuel rail priming itself or lift pump working, loud wining noise.

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 01 Dec 2005, 18:03

It could easily be the crankshaft pulley at 45,000 miles.

PowerLee · Post by **PowerLee** » 01 Dec 2005, 18:05

Hi

Get the engine checked out ASAP, If that crank pully lets go kiss goodbye to your engine.

gwailo · Post by **gwailo** » 01 Dec 2005, 18:42

So - at 45 000 miles more likely to be the crankshaft pulley than leaky injectors.

PowerLee · Post by **PowerLee** » 01 Dec 2005, 19:15

Hi

It could be either of these things or something else at fault, Whatever it is you need to get it looked at quick.

The crank pulley is a well known weak spot on PSA engines.

Be warned though, When a HDI lets go it makes a BIG mess

Take it to someone who KNOWS about HDI engines, Messing around with a HDI without training is asking for trouble,

Heres a few things NOT to do with one of these.

Theres up to 19 & a half THOUSAND PSI of fuel pressure in those metal fuel pipes under the bonnet, Start messing about with that & it will bite back & HARD!
Your average tyre on a car is only running at about 33 PSI so messing about with 19 500 PSI isn't recommended, Before opening a fuel line, Switch the engine OFF & wait 30 seconds for the fuel pressure to return to normal atmospheric pressure.

Unplugging a fuel injector while a HDI is running will punch a conrod through the side of the block as the engine hydraulics in under a second, Result = new engine time.

Running the engine with the auxiliary belt removed will also wreck the crankshaft pulley & then very quickly the engine.

Be careful, Its ever so easy to wreck a HDI

gwailo · Post by **gwailo** » 01 Dec 2005, 20:50

Best get the crankshaft pulley changed as a matter of course + urgency as you say, Is there a mod for this , new nuts etc? or is it just a new pulley from peugeot original parts or GSF around £90. Did peugeot not have this weakness down for a recall. Hopefully is just that....the ticking sound is not particulay bad, just bit annoying when reving unload for 2000rpm. I recall from another post that one Hdi owner belived that if the ticking stopped at 3100 that is where the pre-injection switches off and so led him to believe a case of preigintion due to leaky injectors tho not sure that is the case at 45k miles but suppose anything is possible.

PowerLee · Post by **PowerLee** » 02 Dec 2005, 17:55

The crankshaft pully has been a weakness for a good few years, Its a well know fault to watch for by people who have had more then one Paugeot / Citroen.

Ive only ever had one replaced so far & im on my 4th Pug now.

Like I said before get someone who KNOWS these HDI lumps to have a look at / listen to it before replacing parts.

gwailo · Post by **gwailo** » 02 Dec 2005, 20:01

Hi powerlee and everyone.

Been to a Citroen Independant Specialist about my peugeot, only place could find nearby that might know about Hdis. The mechanic I spoke to knew well about the pulley problem and estimated would be about £130 for labour and the genuine part. So will get that done asap. I told him of some of the comments on this forum regarding the general sound Hdi engines and he reckoned that a few he had driven had made ticking/tapping noises and that a cure has never been found for such examples.

He also said that injectors can easily be removed and using his test equipment checked for leaks -- by measuring any fuel coming back along the injectors return pipe. If an injectors neeeded replacing then he would get them as re-conditioned units direct from bosch at around £130 a piece.

His biggest recommendion was that if I wasn't satisfid with the cars running I should to go to the pug dealer who will have the Hdi fuel maps/other software.. etc and get all the ECUs software updated to the lastest version. He reckoned that the citroen progamming for the same Hdi 90 engine would be different.

My car not running bad, tho just want to make sure a clear up any problems it may have and get it running bit smoother.

Look forward to any comments

PowerLee · Post by **PowerLee** » 02 Dec 2005, 20:11

Hi

The ECU map programme depends on what vehicle the engine is fitted to.

All the Pug dealer will do is connect the car to the laptop & then click on UPDATE.

If theres any suitable updates from Peugeot HQ for the vehicle then they can be downloaded & installed.

gwailo · Post by **gwailo** » 02 Dec 2005, 20:32

Is an update to the ECU very likely to give better running given that my car migt have a 5 year old map installed as it is

PowerLee · Post by **PowerLee** » 03 Dec 2005, 10:26

Hi

PSA Peugeot / Citroen are always working on small tweaks for the software for engine ECUs & on later multiplexed cars the BSI unit too.

Its a bit like Windows update, It fixes known issues with the software but in turn can introduce new bugs too, But new bugs are very very rare.

It would be a good idea to see if theres any software updates available from Peugeot, Ive had a few software updates on my petrol 206 & you can feel & notice the difference afterwards.

Have you any idea when this 306 last had a visit to a Pug main dealer?

gwailo · Post by **gwailo** » 03 Dec 2005, 13:24

All recent services have been normal garages, so it going back 2-3 years since going to a main dealer. I will put all the advice into action and see what results. One other thing someone mentioned if you find copper looking in your fuel filter then this is a sign of lift pup failure. The citroen mechanics reckoned that this is a sign of main high pressure pump failure. Shards of particles come out of the main HP pump and eventually get returned to the tank then lifted again and get stuck in the fuel filter. just a thought

PowerLee · Post by **PowerLee** » 03 Dec 2005, 15:07

Hmmmmm, Pump failure on a HDI, Ive never heard that one before

gwailo · Post by **gwailo** » 12 Dec 2005, 16:41

Update - Got the car insured today and taken it for a run, yeah the flapping noise seems to stop abruptly just after 3000rpm. Getting the pulley done friday but seems that is not the problem. Pre-injection switches of around 3000rpm so maybe is down to that .

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 12 Dec 2005, 17:45

I have exactly the same problem with exactly the same car at the moment (a w-plate 306 HDI 90) and have spoken to a fair number of people about it. It certainly sounds like pre-ignition to me, and I have a feeling it is indeed knackered injectors (at a cost of £arm + £leg each)

Two peugeot dealers have so far had a listen, and have no clue what it is. (surprise surprise). One of the mechanics even suggested randomly unplugging connectors under the bonnet until it stops!

I'm currently investigating having the ECU programmed to have no pre-injection at all, thus removing the problem. The engine runs just fine otherwise, and apparently the reduction in noise levels that the pre-injection causes is less than 2dB, so barely worth it.

I'll be very interested to know what you find out.