smokey exhaust at startup

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mike_zr7
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smokey exhaust at startup

Post by mike_zr7 »

When I start my xantia 19.TD from cold a fair amount of white/blue smoke engulfs the car.
( More of an embaressment than a huge problem) After a few seconds, the smoke disapears and the car runs fine. The car does not lose any oil between oil changes.. I changed the heater plugs 3 months ago, fuel and air filtes were changed approx 7,000 miles back.
I had a look at the leak off pipes, they appear OK with the exception that there appears to be a pipe missing on the cylinder furthest away from the injection pump.I have since added a short piece of rubber pipe with the end blanked off, have I done the right thing here? I have also noticed that the hand operated priming pump appears to be quite soft, does this mean I have air in the system, If so how do I find the leak?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Mike Gaughan
1996 Xantia 1.9TD 78.000 miles, not yet run in
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Try wait 3-5 seconds further - *after* the diesel glow lamp has extinguished. Then start the engine.
I found out by coincidence that my BXtd is a lot more sure starting, calm running and less smoking when started this way. Even though my glowplugs was changed 4 months ago ...

The reason is that the glow timer control box keeps the plugs glowing a while to reduce emissions right after engine start. You can find out (from cold engine !!) how long your Xantia is "glowing" by looking at instrument lights intensity or listen to fan blower noise intensity. When intensity suddenly raises a bit the timer has timed out ...
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
micitroen
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smokin'

Post by micitroen »

Or try the old double application of the glowplugs trick. ie as soon as the glowplug light goes out instead of turning the engine on .....turn it off and then begin the sequence again.........makes the world of difference on a cold morning......it does sound as though you have an air leak from what you say.........have you tried pumping the bulb until it gets hard :oops: and then trying to start it? If it makes a difference you have at least found what the problem is. I don't know how to find the airleak but I'm sure that someone else on here does.
Mike



1993 BX TXD EST mmm. nice. 1990 Bx 19TZD Auto Lhd (now lives in France) 1998 Xsara 1.9d lx.
mike_zr7
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Post by mike_zr7 »

Guys, thanks for the replies. I have try'd pumping the bulb until it gets hard before starting the xantia, but it is still quite smokey. I will try waiting a few seconds after the warning light goes out before starting the car and see if it makes any difference.
1996 Xantia 1.9TD 78.000 miles, not yet run in
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fastandfurryous
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Post by fastandfurryous »

Smoke like this on startup, and reliance on extra glowplugs is often the sign of worn piston rings, glazed bores, or some other reason why the compression isn't perfect when the engine is at cranking speed.

The TD engine is all the more susceptible to this, as it's compression ratio is lower than a N/A diesel. my 405 suffers from this, and I've had a couple of 1.9D engines over the years that were also a touch down on compression at cranking speeds, and hence needed plenty of glowpluggage.

Usually, once the engine has started, the compression stroke is so much faster that the amount of lost compression is so tiny, you would never notice the difference. Although, there will still be some blow-by of the pistons.

You can confirm that this is/isn't the problem by checking how much the engine vents into the air filter through the oil seperator pipe with the engine idling. On a good engine, there will be almost no airflow through this pipe. If there is constant heavy flow of white/grey mist, then your compression is off, and your rings/bores could probably do with some attention.

I once had a 1.9D engine that vented so heavily that it would oil it's foam air filter up so badly that you had to wring it out every week or two. Engine still ran just fine, but did need a LOT of glowplugs in the winter.
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drpau
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Post by drpau »

Are the glowplugs quality ones? I once used halfords own glowplugs on a rover 220sdi and they were worse than the originals, replaced with beru plugs (I think) off ebay and started on the button with no smoke or anything upon startup from then on...
99 Xsara SX HDi 105k with PSi power box- smokier but well worth the wonga!
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Post by uhn113x »

mike_zr7 wrote:Guys, thanks for the replies. I have try'd pumping the bulb until it gets hard before starting the xantia, but it is still quite smokey. I will try waiting a few seconds after the warning light goes out before starting the car and see if it makes any difference.
Hi Mike
If it is a Bosch setup, the injector leakoff pipes must be perfect, or you will get air leaks. Bin there dun that, got DERV on T-shirt!
There is a kit available with a piece of pipe and the blanking thingy for #1 (or is it #4?) injector.
It often would not start at all until you 'try'd' [sic] pumping it; one of the pipes was split.
I do find with the TD (140000 miles) that you do need a double dose of the strawberry whirl light in winter, and it is a tad smoky for a couple of seconds. No oil between changes, but as F&F says, comp ratio is lower on the blower models.
Sometimes the bulb wotsit is porous - I recycled mine as a siphoning device. :)
HTH
Mike in West Yorks
1982 GSA Pallas
1982 Dyane
1997 ZX Dimension
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Post by mike_zr7 »

F&F: Not sure what the oil seperator pipe is, but I opened up the air filter and with the engine running there is nothing blowing back into the air box.
Drpau: the glow plugs are WELLMAN W631 (I think) I dont know if this make of glow plugs is good or bad, but car starts OK.
Mike: Yes it is a Bosch setup, so it may be worthwhile changing the leak off hoses. Any ideas how to check for an air leak?
1996 Xantia 1.9TD 78.000 miles, not yet run in
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uhn113x
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Post by uhn113x »

mike_zr7 wrote:Mike: Yes it is a Bosch setup, so it may be worthwhile changing the leak off hoses. Any ideas how to check for an air leak?
Hi Mike
I'm no expert on this, but if the leakoff pipes have not been changed recently or look a bit perished, it is probably worth renewing them - not too much of a job.
Mine had a split in the end that goes from the nearest injector to the pump; this caused the bulb to go soft a few seconds after being pumped up (not running). Eventually the pipe came off end the engine would not fire unless you pumped it.
HTH
Mike in West Yorks
1982 GSA Pallas
1982 Dyane
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Post by mike_zr7 »

Guys,I do intend to replace the leak off hoses, so far havent had any luck from local parts shops. As I mentioned in my original post the glow plugs were replaced a few months ago, but I thought I would check if they were working OK. I used a 12V test lamp connected to the power lead and after removing the lead which connects all four glow plugs I checked each glow plug. Bulb lights up for approx. 15-20 seconds on three of the plugs. the fourth glow plug does not appear to be working ( if I have checked them correctly) Sods law, the duff glow plug is the one behind the diesel pump. I replaced all four plugs a few months ago wtith WELLMAN glow plugs, I would not recommend this make. I understand BERU are a reputable brand, are these the ones I should Buy?
How can I check a new glow plug is working correctly before I fit it, last time it took me almost an hour to fit the glow plug behind the diesel pump.
Thanks in advance.
Mike Gaughan
1996 Xantia 1.9TD 78.000 miles, not yet run in
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

Glowplugs take a massive current so they either will condict or they won't - so its nothing elaborate that is needed to test them and a test lamp will do the job. Beru ones seem to last well - I've no idea whats in my cars never having changed any of the present ones.

I have a 200,000 mile Td BX and a 75,000 mile ZX 1.9D and both start first time every time on a single heat with negligible smoke. Both have Roto-diesel pumps with the electric timing advance cold start.

If you have the Bosch pump the leakoff pipes are vital. They go hard after about 8 years and I had to do the ZX ones earlier this year. I was able to buy the tube and end cap from my local accessory shop.

If you suspect air in the system try replacing the last section of fuel feed pipe to the pump with a clear one and look for the bubbles.

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Post by fastandfurryous »

Best way to check a glowplug is to hold the body of it in a jump-lead clamp, put the other end (of the cable) on the negative battery terminal, and then use the clamp on the glowplug as a handle to touch the terminal of the glowplug on the positive of the battery

As it sparks, start counting. After 4 seconds, the tip should start to glow. After 6 seconds it should be cherry red. After 8 seconds it should almost be white hot.

If it takes significantly longer than this to heat up, or glows somewhere other than the tip, then bin it.

Safety note: after running a plug like this, it remains BLOODY HOT for about 3-4 minutes afterwards. Not a good idea to try and handle it!
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mike_zr7
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Post by mike_zr7 »

Guys, Thanks for all your help. I have fitted a new glow plug, after checking it was OK. (thanks F&F) and this appears to have solved the problem. The xantia kicks out a small amount of smoke at startup, but nowhere near as bad as it was. I think the car must have been starting on 3 cylinders and throwing the unburnt fuel out the exhaust??
While I was in the mood I changed the accumulator sphere, the pump was ticking approx. every 15 seconds, and replaced the LHM fluid.
Mike Gaughan
1996 Xantia 1.9TD 78.000 miles, not yet run in
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Post by soupy_sam »

Hi I had the exact same problem loads of white smoke for about 2 minutes when I started the engine. I found a leak in the exhaust gasket replaced the gasket and the smoke has gone just a hint at start up now
Sam de Lessups from Coventry West Midlands England
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Post by sooty »

Mine has been the same the last few frosty mornings and it chugs for a few seconds then runs fine. I know theres a Glow plug not working, but it still starts OK once the light goes out.

I will renew the plugs this weekend before it gets any worse.


"As it sparks, start counting. After 4 seconds, the tip should start to glow. After 6 seconds it should be cherry red. After 8 seconds it should almost be white hot. "
I think this is abit long on the times, if its a rapid heat plug it should be half that time.
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