Xantia Injection pump (changing from Lucas to Bosch)

tm1 · Post by **tm1** » 25 Oct 2005, 12:06

I have been reading a bit about diesel engines running on vegetable oil recently and am intrigued at the prospect of converting my Xantia.

The problem lies with the model of fuel injection pump I have.

In order to have the 'conversion' work, I ideally need to have the Bosch type of injection pump and mine is currently the Lucas type.

The Xantia I have is a standard 1.9 diesel LX 1994 and has done 122k miles. I hope to arrange for a conversion (2 tank) to be in place but the Lucas pump is not fully compatible.

Does anyone know if the Bosch pump that resides on the Xantia 1.9Td or the one on the ZX 1.9Td will be a compatible unit with a standard 1.9Dlx or are the engines/pumps incompatible?

Also, should the pump be compatible, what sort of price do these things go for at scrappies? . . are they relatively easy to set the timing on once fitted? . . and more to the point, are they as rare as hen's teeth?

I live in the Uk (North West).

Thanks in advance.

BernieLugg · Post by **BernieLugg** » 25 Oct 2005, 12:55

Lucas pumps can be rebuilt with hardened seals (more resistive to the acid corrosive nature of the veggie oil).
To convert to Bosch you will need all the injectors, pump, associated pipework and I think im correct in saying the ECU from the donor car.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 25 Oct 2005, 14:34

BernieLugg wrote:To convert to Bosch you will need all the injectors, pump, associated pipework and I think im correct in saying the ECU from the donor car.

You'll definately need the injectors and injector pipes from the Bosch pump. Not all Bosch pumps have an ECU, I have one with and one without. If I was doing the conversion I'd be looking for a Bosch pump without the ECU.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 25 Oct 2005, 14:41

You should be able to find a Bosch pump and injectors from a 1.9TD enigne all over the place, for very little cash. Second hand injector set should be £15, and a pump should be about £40... Maybe £50 for the lot from a reasonable scrappie.

Suitable vehicles are:

Xantia 1.9TD without ECU
Puegeot 405 TD 1992 onwards (smooth dash model)
Peugeot 306 TD
Peugeot 406 TD without ECU (these are rare)
Citroen ZX TD
Citroen Xsara TD

And probably a couple of other obscure cars, but these are the main ones.

Although the injectors look identical to the Lucas 1.9TD ones, you must use the bosch ones, as the pintle spring is stiffer, and hence the opening pressure is a good deal higher... about 185BAR as opposed to 130BAR if I remember correctly.

Timing the injection pump onto your engine is fairly straightforward, but does require the use of a DTI (Dial test indicator). If it's not spot on, your economy will suffer, although (bizzarely) the engine will probably still drive just fine.

Post by **RichardW** » 25 Oct 2005, 16:02

Hang on a mo guys.... this is a Xantia 1.9D we are talking about if I read the original post right? So it is NON-TURBO. In that case the manual injection pump from any vehicle fitted with the 1.9D engine will fit (eg ZX, 306, BX, 405 etc etc). However, are you sure it's a Lucas pump? All the Xantias I have seen / heard about have been Bosch (mind you they're all 1.9 TDs - the 2.1s have a Lucas EPIC pump I think). A Bosch pump without a boost compensator looks very similar to a Lucas pump (with or without a boost compensator). To be sure, check where the cold start cable runs to - if it's the front of the pump, it's a Lucas, to the back it's a Bosch.

tm1 · Post by **tm1** » 25 Oct 2005, 16:38

Yes it IS a standard 1.9D and it IS currently a Lucas pump.

Can anyone suggest the most financially viable way forward to the proposed conversion (including any parts/kit costs - the cheapest/best value basic set up seems to be Goat Industries)?

Thanks for the replies so far!!

James.UK · Post by **James.UK** » 25 Oct 2005, 16:55

Why not just start using veggie oil as-is with no conversions, and replace the pump seals as, when, and if, they ever cause you a problem, it may never happen

tm1 · Post by **tm1** » 25 Oct 2005, 18:15

James

Is your Citroen running with a Bosch pump?

Re running on veg unconverted - I'd be too worried of the possible consequences of engine damge should the cam snap on the pump as it may cause timing belp probs and associated engine failure.

Stewart(oily) · Post by **Stewart(oily)** » 25 Oct 2005, 19:04

I ran my Lucas pumped DTR for a long time on various concentrations of Veggie oil with no problems whatsoever, suggest you locate the parts, pop them on a shelf in the garage and get veggie

Stewart

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 25 Oct 2005, 20:43

RichardW wrote:Hang on a mo guys.... this is a Xantia 1.9D we are talking about if I read the original post right? So it is NON-TURBO.

A rather appropriate time for a rather loud, homer simpson style D'OH!

In which case, the only thing you need to avoid is the early square-port engine, as it was a 65hp variant. Yours is the oval-port, at either 70hp or 71hp (I think it's something like 70.6hp, but gets rounded in different directions by different people along the way)

Square-port engines are found in Talbot horizon, 205, 305, 309, and early BX.

James.UK · Post by **James.UK** » 25 Oct 2005, 22:45

Hiya TM1..

No. I am not running on veggie at the moment as I applied for a licence to use the stuff, turns out its so complicated and requires so many forms filling in that the annual saving simply isn't worth while in my case.

My ZX is only doing about 3.000 - 3.500 miles a year now at about 40-45 mpg, so I dont gain much by registering. My ZX did run well on the oil though, it performed a bit better all round, and even sounded happier on it, slightly less 'clanky' and a deeper engine tone.

I would have thought that any prob with the Lucas pump would have been leaking seals, I doubt the cam belt breaking would be the first sign of trouble should the Lucas fuel pump have problems with using veggie oil..

However, someone did mention you can replace the lucas pump seals for more robust ones that can tolerate oil use indefinately? so why not do that instead, it does sound the easiest solution..

I was also aware that Stewart(oily) ran a Lucas pump on veggie for a long time with no problems whatsoever. In fact I have never read anything about anyone on this forum having had a Lucas pump fail due to veggie use. It seems to be a theory rather than a proven fact.

But I would hate you to be the first.. .

lol.. So why not replace the Lucas pump seals..

.

tm1 · Post by **tm1** » 26 Oct 2005, 14:52

Thanks to you all for the comments/suggestions and help. I'll keep my eyes peeled for more advice over the coming few days.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » 02 Nov 2005, 20:23

I'm just wondering what new seals will do for the pump? As far as I have read, fresh veggie oil is noone corrosive. It is the treated bio-diesel which eats stuff.

Any insights welcomed as I'm about to start the veggie experiement myself with a 2.1 TD 605.