Hi All,
I have at least one rollbar droplink balljoint that has some slack in it (lower balljoint on the left hand side) can anyone describe what effects they noticed on the ride when they had faulty droplinks and then replaced them ?
I've been chasing what I would describe as "intermitantly harsh" ride in the front suspension ever since I got my car, and as it is a VSX I've been diagnosing all the things related to Hydractive 2 that can cause a harsh ride, and have reached a point where I'm satisfied that the HA2 system is working ok - spheres are adequately gassed, computer is functioning ok, solenoids are reliably switching soft/hard modes etc, and yet the harsh ride persists.
And yet it isn't like that ALL the time... on certain road surfaces the ride seems very good, and on others, particularly rough surfaces such as potholes it is goddamn awful, and might as well have conventional springs.
I've been chasing strut friction as a possible cause of harsh ride, and there is no doubt that greasing the strut made a BIG improvement in the ride harshness (nearly eliminated it on most surfaces) and yet in a few weeks it deteriorated again.
I also recently replaced the LHM and cleaned the filters/tank (see another thread - some dimwit had put some red oil in instead of LHM) and in the process I thought I'd try the LHM in a jar sucked up the overflow pipe trick of the BX even though I thought it wouldn't work on a Xantia - but sure enough, the ride was greatly improved, but this time it deteriorated back to normal in only 2 days.
Even though I still suspect problems with the strut bushes the car lifts and lowers perfectly smoothly, no creaking or groaning, and while the car is stationary and idling I can press on the front and even quite gentle pressure will move the suspension a small amount, so there doesn't seem to be any excessive friction there, despite greasing etc seemingly improving the ride quality.
I should point out that ride quality is worst when cornering or accelerating - it gets quite obviously more fidgety and harsh when accelerating or cornering, even though it's not switching into the hard mode.
And yet immediately after greasing the struts the ride quality was GOOD in both cornering and accelerating conditions...
HELP! Does anyone have any other suggestions ? I'm just about at my wits end here... after all the work I've done on the suspension it still doesn't ride anywhere near as well as my old GS did, let alone my Dad's CX. (Not that I would expect it to ride quite that well..)
It also rides a bit more harshly than my Dad's SX Xantia, even despite the fact that his car has low gas pressure in the front spheres and thus rides "firmer" than mine, at the same time it is less fidgety and harsh than mine. One difference is that his doesn't appear to have any droplink slack.
Could slack in the rollbar droplinks (or for that matter the swivel balljoint or steering rack) cause harsh/fidgety ride on some surfaces ?
I know the McPherson strut design has some inherant limitations, but under some circumstances the ride is simply worse than conventional steel springs, so there has got to be something still wrong.
Yours,
Out of ideas... [V]
Xantia rollbar droplinks - and harsh ride ?
Moderator: RichardW
drop links should not afect the ride quality,you will just have constant kloncking as the worn out ball joints move in there sockets,and you probably wont achivethe same ride as you will get in a GS/CX because these models had top and bottom susp/arm on the front and bearings in all of the arms,not like XANTS with a strut and one lower arm which has rubber bushes it flexes on,so XANTS susp dont move as freely as GS/CXs do
regards malcolm
regards malcolm
Simon I agree with Citronut that the drop link shouldn't really have any influence on the ride. if its very worn I suppose it might transmit a light vibration as it moved and rattled. you may be able to get some grease in the rattly joint which will improve things temporarily for diagnostic purposes.
My BX is ver sensitive to ride height and a sticky height corrector and if it gets to thr right height the ride is lovely, too low and its harsh. I really ought to clean all the linkage and change the corrector but it looks a pig of a job and so it doesn't get done but well greased instead - especially the rod going into the thing (I use a brush to get grease onto it!)
Your temporary improvement may be that you have simply raised the suspension and freed the corrector for a bit.
You could try measuring the height (ie wheelarch gap) and recording it against ride quality and see if there is a trend)
jeremy
My BX is ver sensitive to ride height and a sticky height corrector and if it gets to thr right height the ride is lovely, too low and its harsh. I really ought to clean all the linkage and change the corrector but it looks a pig of a job and so it doesn't get done but well greased instead - especially the rod going into the thing (I use a brush to get grease onto it!)
Your temporary improvement may be that you have simply raised the suspension and freed the corrector for a bit.
You could try measuring the height (ie wheelarch gap) and recording it against ride quality and see if there is a trend)
jeremy
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Peter.N.
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It would actually ride better with the droplinks disconnected, but handling, well thats something else. The problem is probably more likely related to your tyres, over inflation, lack of tread or just plain stiff walls. The type of tyres use use with hydropnumatic makes a lot of difference but whatever you use they still tend to ride hard over small sharp bumps especially at low speed.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Peter.N.</i>
It would actually ride better with the droplinks disconnected, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The trouble with that idea is the front H/C would be inoperative[:(]
It would actually ride better with the droplinks disconnected, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The trouble with that idea is the front H/C would be inoperative[:(]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jeremy</i>
Simon I agree with Citronut that the drop link shouldn't really have any influence on the ride. if its very worn I suppose it might transmit a light vibration as it moved and rattled. you may be able to get some grease in the rattly joint which will improve things temporarily for diagnostic purposes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Interestingly on the top right balljoint I've noticed that the boot has completely split in half revealing the joint to the elements [}:)] I don't remember seeing it like that a few weeks ago, and there is already no trace of grease left, nor any way to keep any in until I replace it.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
My BX is ver sensitive to ride height and a sticky height corrector and if it gets to thr right height the ride is lovely, too low and its harsh. I really ought to clean all the linkage and change the corrector but it looks a pig of a job and so it doesn't get done but well greased instead - especially the rod going into the thing (I use a brush to get grease onto it!)
Your temporary improvement may be that you have simply raised the suspension and freed the corrector for a bit.
You could try measuring the height (ie wheelarch gap) and recording it against ride quality and see if there is a trend)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Interesting comment about very small ride height changes affecting the ride quality a lot - I was just about to mention the same!
Both the height correctors on my car seem to work very well, in fact better than the ones on my GS ever did at their best.
The front height is very accurate and I find that the height when it corrects upwards after a load increase is identical within about 2mm as when it corrects downwards after a load decrease, and even very small changes are corrected for.
However what I noticed is that when I raised the ride height by about 10mm the ride seemed quite dramatically better - for a few days anyway, then it deteriorated again, and then setting it back to normal gave a better ride again - for a few days. [}:)]
What I'm beginning to wonder is this - could years of wear cause small ridges to form in the strut shaft at the bushes at the "normal" height setting ? Unlike normal MacPherson struts which will be at a different position depending on load, the height correctors, especially if they're working well will cause the struts to always ride at a nearly identical height, thus wearing in the same place.
Maybe the intermitant harsh ride is simply the strut sticking slightly in one of these ridges ? So small errors in height can result in good or bad ride at random ?
Does anyone know how much the strut bushes wear and how many years are they expected to last ? Has anyone ever replaced a pair due to wear ?
Has anyone who has had a Xantia from new noticed a deterioration in ride quality that is not restored by replacing spheres and balljoints ?
Regards,
Simon
Simon I agree with Citronut that the drop link shouldn't really have any influence on the ride. if its very worn I suppose it might transmit a light vibration as it moved and rattled. you may be able to get some grease in the rattly joint which will improve things temporarily for diagnostic purposes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Interestingly on the top right balljoint I've noticed that the boot has completely split in half revealing the joint to the elements [}:)] I don't remember seeing it like that a few weeks ago, and there is already no trace of grease left, nor any way to keep any in until I replace it.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
My BX is ver sensitive to ride height and a sticky height corrector and if it gets to thr right height the ride is lovely, too low and its harsh. I really ought to clean all the linkage and change the corrector but it looks a pig of a job and so it doesn't get done but well greased instead - especially the rod going into the thing (I use a brush to get grease onto it!)
Your temporary improvement may be that you have simply raised the suspension and freed the corrector for a bit.
You could try measuring the height (ie wheelarch gap) and recording it against ride quality and see if there is a trend)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Interesting comment about very small ride height changes affecting the ride quality a lot - I was just about to mention the same!
Both the height correctors on my car seem to work very well, in fact better than the ones on my GS ever did at their best.
The front height is very accurate and I find that the height when it corrects upwards after a load increase is identical within about 2mm as when it corrects downwards after a load decrease, and even very small changes are corrected for.
However what I noticed is that when I raised the ride height by about 10mm the ride seemed quite dramatically better - for a few days anyway, then it deteriorated again, and then setting it back to normal gave a better ride again - for a few days. [}:)]
What I'm beginning to wonder is this - could years of wear cause small ridges to form in the strut shaft at the bushes at the "normal" height setting ? Unlike normal MacPherson struts which will be at a different position depending on load, the height correctors, especially if they're working well will cause the struts to always ride at a nearly identical height, thus wearing in the same place.
Maybe the intermitant harsh ride is simply the strut sticking slightly in one of these ridges ? So small errors in height can result in good or bad ride at random ?
Does anyone know how much the strut bushes wear and how many years are they expected to last ? Has anyone ever replaced a pair due to wear ?
Has anyone who has had a Xantia from new noticed a deterioration in ride quality that is not restored by replacing spheres and balljoints ?
Regards,
Simon
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jeremy</i>
What I can say is that new struts on my BX made a world of difference - far more than the temporary improvement on greasing.
Jeremy
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I was afraid you might say that. What symptoms prompted you to replace them ?
Regards,
Simon
What I can say is that new struts on my BX made a world of difference - far more than the temporary improvement on greasing.
Jeremy
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I was afraid you might say that. What symptoms prompted you to replace them ?
Regards,
Simon
Leaks - both leaked from the return hoses, replaced return hoses but didn't seal well so replaced. This is why I say its never worth replacing the return hoses - put the money towards a strut.
You must remember that I bought this car in fairly poor state for not much money largely for amusement. I still have the thing 6 years later and have learnt loads through it. How much longer I keep it I don't know. It will turn 200,000 miles very shortly, needs an MOT this week and due to a career change may be redundant at the end of the year or early next. I am training to be a driving instructor and a 16 year old BX isn't quite the car for conversion to dual controls. The question is do we keep it or my wife's very nice ZX 1.9D which has only done 75 000 miles and costs virtually nothing to run.
The obvious thing to do would be to sell both and get a Xantia estate (as we like having an estate) The problem is that we live in the centre of town and compared to a BX the Xantia estate is huge as is the C5. ZX TD estates all seem to have done huge mileages and really are a bit bland (My opinion only) so probably what I'll end up doing is going through the BX very thoroughly and have it professionally painted and see if it'll last another 5 years or so.
Jeremy
You must remember that I bought this car in fairly poor state for not much money largely for amusement. I still have the thing 6 years later and have learnt loads through it. How much longer I keep it I don't know. It will turn 200,000 miles very shortly, needs an MOT this week and due to a career change may be redundant at the end of the year or early next. I am training to be a driving instructor and a 16 year old BX isn't quite the car for conversion to dual controls. The question is do we keep it or my wife's very nice ZX 1.9D which has only done 75 000 miles and costs virtually nothing to run.
The obvious thing to do would be to sell both and get a Xantia estate (as we like having an estate) The problem is that we live in the centre of town and compared to a BX the Xantia estate is huge as is the C5. ZX TD estates all seem to have done huge mileages and really are a bit bland (My opinion only) so probably what I'll end up doing is going through the BX very thoroughly and have it professionally painted and see if it'll last another 5 years or so.
Jeremy