"Which" report

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 11 Sep 2005, 13:52

I see that the latest "Which" car awards for the nine cars you should never buy includes two Citroens: The 'woeful' Saxo and the 'scarily poor' Xantia!
It also includes the 'wholly unpleasant' Peugeot 106 and the 'depressing' Renault Megane.
What do they know that we don't?

Post by **martyhopkirk** » 11 Sep 2005, 14:43

Do they describe why? I mean its all subjective really, as one persons worse car ever is anothers dream.
My neighbour is/ was a Pug man till the local stealership stuffed him well and truly over his 51 plate 406 HDi. Now he says he will never have one again. Not the cars fault, but the stealers by all accounts. Doesnt mean the 406 is a bag of DAZ, but Richard wont have one again.

turbolag · Post by **turbolag** » 11 Sep 2005, 17:47

I'll second that. My 406 HDi is a cracking motor but 2 pug stealerships tried to shaft me for an extra hours labour to fit a new bottmom pulley during a cambelt change (even though the old pulley must be removed anyway to get the belt off). A local independant 'fred in a shed' who is a Citruin specialist did it with genuine parts for nearly £170 less. No wonder people get jaundiced.
Fairs fair though - when I had a 7 series the bimmer dealer was just as keep to butt shaft my wallet whenever they thought they could. £30 quid for resetting the service indicator when the tool (with instructions) to reset it myself cost less than a tenner was a right giraffe.

nick · Post by **nick** » 11 Sep 2005, 20:37

A couple of years ago I emailed the editor of "Which?" to tell them that they had completely mixed up the NCAP star ratings for various cars in a test they did on superminis, & I included a link to the EuroNCAP site. Weeks later I got a reply from the editor saying I was absolutely right and apologising for the error, and they would correct it in a later issue.
Shortly after this I got a cheeky email from them, asking if I would like to take out a subscription. I replied saying that no I wouldn't, but if they paid <i>me </i> the subscription & sent me a copy each month I'd proof read it & return it to them with the errors underlined [:D]
Surprisingly I got no reply........

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 11 Sep 2005, 22:20

Perhaps I aught (is that spelt correctly?) to make it clear that I didn't read it in "Which", it was reported in Nick Massey's column in Saturday's Mail - and he is usually good value.

paranoid · Post by **paranoid** » 11 Sep 2005, 23:46

Read this issue this week and does seem like a load of crap, everything that isn't japanese seems to get knocked.

yangreen · Post by **yangreen** » 12 Sep 2005, 01:59

Yes, odd that isn't it? Do Japanese cars not have cambelts or cylinder heads or balljoints etc? The Saxo is only dreadful because of what people do to them!
I think people like the "shock insult" tactic employed by Mr J Clarkson many, many years ago and copycat tactics are easy.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 12 Sep 2005, 17:45

I would imagine the Saxo is in because of its corrosion problem, which Citroen don't seem to want mentioned, and the others probably because of niggling electrical faults.
One of my work colleagues who was happily driving an ancient Sierra was nagged by his other half into getting something newer- a Megane, which has had endless electrical problems since the day he got it.
The electrical system is very complex and I don't think the dealers understand it at all.
I've mentioned before on the forum the appaling state a friends new Picasso was delivered in, and the problems he's had trying to get Citroen to sort it-he'd never buy another one and it sent me off to the Kia dealers!! Having seen how rubbish his Picasso was, I crossed it straight off the list!!
Have a read of Honest Johns forum and you come across loads of Pug owners having electrical trouble as well-they never get properly fixed and so get low scores.
The Which reports are based on readers reporting faults-Jap cars score highly because they are better made, and so don't present the same number of faults. The dealers may be a bit more on the ball about fixing them as well so the punter doesn't keep having to go back.
Its something the Japs and Koreans seem to have grasped- build it properly in the first place and your punter may well buy another: don't put it together properly and not only will they buy something else next time, they will also moan about you to magazines, TV, anyone else who'll listen, etc,etc,....

FrenchLeave · Post by **FrenchLeave** » 13 Sep 2005, 00:36

Absolutely. I think we Citroen owners put up with some shockingly poor faults in our cars because they are unique. We are always caught on the horns of a dilemma - is the genuinely delightful driving experience worth the hassle. I bought my V6 XM (and paid well over the odds) because there was no car that I would rather have and as far as driving is concerned that is still true. But in two tears - oops, Freudian slip - that should have read two years ownership it has suffered a failed rear suspension unit, centre exhaust system and now the driver's window cable. All expensive and all ballaching, and that's with a low mileage supposedly luxury car. Driving becomes a worry about what's going to break next and a Toyota begins to look attractive, or maybe a very second hand Lexus?

matt · Post by **matt** » 13 Sep 2005, 03:43

Its all well and good owning a reliable car but they do tend to be rather boring,what else is there to do on a saturday than fixing the car[:D]Anyhow have you seen how ugly korean cars are[:0]i would rather break down.
Korean saying:- a dog is for life not just for breakfast[:D]

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 13 Sep 2005, 04:15

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Its all well and good owning a reliable car but they do tend to be rather boring,what else is there to do on a saturday than fixing the car<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The boring Korean car, being dog-reliable, means I don't have 'er indoors moaning about it breaking down or something not working!!!
This leaves saturdays free for fiddling with the ancient Coventry six-shooter!!

TomH · Post by **TomH** » 16 Sep 2005, 01:37

French (and Italian) cars always do badly these days in all surveys. Mainly because of dealer service, and electronics faults. They ARE unreliable.
The Saxo is pretty Woeful too! they're not wrong.
...but apparently the winner was the Toyota Yaris Verso, which if you've seen I'm sure you'll agree is the ugliest and least desirable vehicle ever!

yangreen · Post by **yangreen** » 16 Sep 2005, 03:00

Which just goes to show that people ignore a good car that looks like a dogs dinner and would rather drive something that looks like sex on wheels (well, probably not now I've actually thought about that line!) yet is certain to go wrong! Or is hopeless. Yaris Verso will never sell as well as the near boot-less Mini. The smart will always sell well as it looks funky. People ignore the appalling ride, alarming understeer and frustrating gearbox.

Stinkwheel · Post by **Stinkwheel** » 16 Sep 2005, 03:23

didnt mention it there ian

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 16 Sep 2005, 03:26

Thats why the Ka sells so well-compared to its far eastern competition its woefully inadequate in every respect and cheap'n'nasty, but, its cute!!!
Small eastern cars ( and big ones..) are, however, ugly, so seriously lose out in the fashion stakes!!