Fellas, there's something messing around inside my head (no, not moths).
I sometimes hear "All <i>them</i> people..."
Shouldn't it be "All <i>those</i> people..."?
When do i use them instead of those or other term?
Thanks!
Question about proper english (grammar)
Moderator: RichardW
You are quite right Francisco.
The standard of English spoken and written in the UK is declining rapidly. It's probably true in other countries as well though. I believe that TV and texting are largely to blame, but poor parenting must play a major part as well. [V]
[Sits back and waits for poor English comments.... [B)] ]
The standard of English spoken and written in the UK is declining rapidly. It's probably true in other countries as well though. I believe that TV and texting are largely to blame, but poor parenting must play a major part as well. [V]
[Sits back and waits for poor English comments.... [B)] ]
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Ross_K
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Sl4yer</i>
I believe that TV and texting are largely to blame, but poor parenting must play a major part as well. [V]
[Sits back and waits for poor English comments.... [B)] ]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
U r so rite 4 sure. lol!!
[}:)][}:)]
No seriously, people who write like 13-year old kids texting should be taken out the back and... It's not that difficult to type properly considering we have innovations like spell checkers these days. [:0] Come to think of it, spell checkers probably make people lazier (or should that be "more lazy"?).
I believe that TV and texting are largely to blame, but poor parenting must play a major part as well. [V]
[Sits back and waits for poor English comments.... [B)] ]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
U r so rite 4 sure. lol!!
[}:)][}:)]
No seriously, people who write like 13-year old kids texting should be taken out the back and... It's not that difficult to type properly considering we have innovations like spell checkers these days. [:0] Come to think of it, spell checkers probably make people lazier (or should that be "more lazy"?).
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The standard of English spoken and written<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Should that not be "The standard of written and spoken English..[;)]"
English is a living and constantly changing language-spellings and definitions vary over the years,old words die and new ones come into general usage.
I don't think that there is any such thing as 'proper' English- Shakespeare's English is different to Mallory's English, and even, in modern literature, William Burroughs (compare, say 'King Lear' to 'Morte de Arthur', and then throw in 'The Naked Lunch'.....), and all three are different again to the English used by the BBC- all are totally different both in form and pronunciation, yet all are recognisably English.
Watch TV interviews from only 30 or 40 years ago and they speak a different English to that which is currently spoken- not better or worse, just different. Enfield Chase railway station used to have a 'mis-spelt' sign,(it may still have, but I haven't been there for a while) which asked passangers to 'Shew' their tickets. Its not mis-spelt at all- its just an older spelling of 'show' which is no longer in common usage. And how many different ways did Shakespeare spell his own name...?
Were the bard alive today, no doubt he would be writing in experimental textish, and I am sure he would have written 'Romeo and Juliet' in street-speak!!!
Should that not be "The standard of written and spoken English..[;)]"
English is a living and constantly changing language-spellings and definitions vary over the years,old words die and new ones come into general usage.
I don't think that there is any such thing as 'proper' English- Shakespeare's English is different to Mallory's English, and even, in modern literature, William Burroughs (compare, say 'King Lear' to 'Morte de Arthur', and then throw in 'The Naked Lunch'.....), and all three are different again to the English used by the BBC- all are totally different both in form and pronunciation, yet all are recognisably English.
Watch TV interviews from only 30 or 40 years ago and they speak a different English to that which is currently spoken- not better or worse, just different. Enfield Chase railway station used to have a 'mis-spelt' sign,(it may still have, but I haven't been there for a while) which asked passangers to 'Shew' their tickets. Its not mis-spelt at all- its just an older spelling of 'show' which is no longer in common usage. And how many different ways did Shakespeare spell his own name...?
Were the bard alive today, no doubt he would be writing in experimental textish, and I am sure he would have written 'Romeo and Juliet' in street-speak!!!
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uhn113x
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by 406 V6</i>
Fellas, there's something messing around inside my head (no, not moths).
I sometimes hear "All <i>them</i> people..."
Shouldn't it be "All <i>those</i> people..."?
When do i use them instead of those or other term?
Thanks!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Francisco
You are right - it should be 'those'. You can say 'All them' but without putting anything on the end of it. 'Them' is something that you have already referred to.
Some dialects here do say 'them people' though.
BTW, proper nouns like 'English' should have a capital letter on them - if anyone spells my name without one, they get told! [;)]
Fellas, there's something messing around inside my head (no, not moths).
I sometimes hear "All <i>them</i> people..."
Shouldn't it be "All <i>those</i> people..."?
When do i use them instead of those or other term?
Thanks!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Francisco
You are right - it should be 'those'. You can say 'All them' but without putting anything on the end of it. 'Them' is something that you have already referred to.
Some dialects here do say 'them people' though.
BTW, proper nouns like 'English' should have a capital letter on them - if anyone spells my name without one, they get told! [;)]
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uhn113x
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BXB is quite right about the evolution of a language; words and spellings change, cf 'gay'. The words 'fine' and 'awful' changed their meanings a long while ago.
I think that 'alright' and 'onto' are now real words.
Literacy became better in the 1800s and early 1900s - in the last two or three decades it was decided that spelling and grammar was not needed in school, and we now see the results of this. Employers despair when 16 year olds are almost illiterate. It would appear that the gubmint [sic] have now woken from a long sleep
Another point is sheer laziness - people cannot be bothered to try to read what they have just written; if they did, they would find it would not make any sense.
Like 'I will write any crap I want to - you can sort it out.'
Spell checkers. IMHO they are a bad idea! They will only give you the correct spelling, not the correct word! How many times do we see:
Loose for lose
Their for there or they're
Its for it's
Your for you're.
Plurals with apostrophes.
Too much of this, and the text is unreadable. I joined a forum and ditched it a few weeks later because I could not read 80% of the posts - stand up Car Mechanics!
The other factor is that many words are easy to spell if pronounced correctly, but sadly, even the BBC newsreaders suffer from 'drawring'. 'Febuary' and 'Laura norder' so what hope have we?
</rant>
I think that 'alright' and 'onto' are now real words.
Literacy became better in the 1800s and early 1900s - in the last two or three decades it was decided that spelling and grammar was not needed in school, and we now see the results of this. Employers despair when 16 year olds are almost illiterate. It would appear that the gubmint [sic] have now woken from a long sleep
Another point is sheer laziness - people cannot be bothered to try to read what they have just written; if they did, they would find it would not make any sense.
Like 'I will write any crap I want to - you can sort it out.'
Spell checkers. IMHO they are a bad idea! They will only give you the correct spelling, not the correct word! How many times do we see:
Loose for lose
Their for there or they're
Its for it's
Your for you're.
Plurals with apostrophes.
Too much of this, and the text is unreadable. I joined a forum and ditched it a few weeks later because I could not read 80% of the posts - stand up Car Mechanics!
The other factor is that many words are easy to spell if pronounced correctly, but sadly, even the BBC newsreaders suffer from 'drawring'. 'Febuary' and 'Laura norder' so what hope have we?
</rant>
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tomsheppard
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> quote:The standard of English spoken and written
Should that not be "The standard of written and spoken English.."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Bodger, if you put a comma in there it can be correct[;)]
"The standard of English, spoken and written,[...] "
I remember when i was a kid (say, 13 years ago), a huge controversy due to the lack (or need) of a comma in an official document called for all the Masters and Deans of the best colleges, and even the Constitutional Court, for a few months.
We should all stick with Latin, it's dead for centuries[:)], but then again, wouldn't it too be ressurected due to it being used and as such, as a living language, be evolving and changing from that moment?
The best way may be to use pictograms and write them on caves[:D] while havng our mouths shut.
Should that not be "The standard of written and spoken English.."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Bodger, if you put a comma in there it can be correct[;)]
"The standard of English, spoken and written,[...] "
I remember when i was a kid (say, 13 years ago), a huge controversy due to the lack (or need) of a comma in an official document called for all the Masters and Deans of the best colleges, and even the Constitutional Court, for a few months.
We should all stick with Latin, it's dead for centuries[:)], but then again, wouldn't it too be ressurected due to it being used and as such, as a living language, be evolving and changing from that moment?
The best way may be to use pictograms and write them on caves[:D] while havng our mouths shut.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Shakespeare's English is different to Mallory's English<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Different <i>FROM</i>[}:)]
This is soundly based on logical thought!
Different <i>FROM</i>[}:)]
This is soundly based on logical thought!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by 406 V6</i>
Fellas, there's something messing around inside my head (no, not moths).
I sometimes hear "All <i>them</i> people..."
Shouldn't it be "All <i>those</i> people..."?
When do i use them instead of those or other term?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
As previosuly stated, the correct usage is "All those people...", although personally I find that clause a little awkward and would probably say "All of those people..." instead[:D].
"Them" is one of those fantastic words that could mean anything[:I] It is both the singular and the plural form for a third-person pronoun. In the singular form, it is used when you don't want to indicate gender (e.g.: "Someone asked me for help so I helped them" rather than "A man asked me for help so I helped him"). In the plural form, it refers to two or more specific "things" that have already been identified or refered to (e.g.: "Alice threw two balls to me and I caught them").
"Those" is used as a determiner, to identify particular "things" out of a group of "things" (e.g.: "I bought those apples"). "These" is used in a similar manner.
Essentially, the answer to your question "When do i use them instead of those or other term?" is the same for pretty much any question about English grammar: when you want to[;)]
Next week: ending sentences with prepositions is a bad habit. [}:)]
Fellas, there's something messing around inside my head (no, not moths).
I sometimes hear "All <i>them</i> people..."
Shouldn't it be "All <i>those</i> people..."?
When do i use them instead of those or other term?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
As previosuly stated, the correct usage is "All those people...", although personally I find that clause a little awkward and would probably say "All of those people..." instead[:D].
"Them" is one of those fantastic words that could mean anything[:I] It is both the singular and the plural form for a third-person pronoun. In the singular form, it is used when you don't want to indicate gender (e.g.: "Someone asked me for help so I helped them" rather than "A man asked me for help so I helped him"). In the plural form, it refers to two or more specific "things" that have already been identified or refered to (e.g.: "Alice threw two balls to me and I caught them").
"Those" is used as a determiner, to identify particular "things" out of a group of "things" (e.g.: "I bought those apples"). "These" is used in a similar manner.
Essentially, the answer to your question "When do i use them instead of those or other term?" is the same for pretty much any question about English grammar: when you want to[;)]
Next week: ending sentences with prepositions is a bad habit. [}:)]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by uhn113x</i>
Spell checkers. IMHO they are a bad idea! They will only give you the correct spelling, not the correct word!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<clears throat>
<center>Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rarely ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect in it's weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
</center>
[:D][;)][8D]
Spell checkers. IMHO they are a bad idea! They will only give you the correct spelling, not the correct word!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<clears throat>
<center>Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rarely ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect in it's weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
</center>
[:D][;)][8D]
ROFL!!!!!!!!!! [:P]
Thanks for the lesson Batwad.
In portuguese we have four diferent ways for "them". 2 plural and 2 for gender.
(Obviously not expecting you to understand this): aquele/aquela (male/female, singular form), aqueles, aquelas (same/same, plural)
Unfortunately, in portuguese, i can't use "them" as in your example
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"Someone asked me for help so I helped them"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
as the prnoun has to agree with the subject in it's form (male/female). In these situations, we use what in English is employed as (e.g.)"<i>One</i> should[blá-blá-blá]"
Ok, no more of this, i brings back memories from the time i was at school and had Portuguese since the 3rd grade up until i was 17y.o. (my mom has a degree in Latin languages, imagine my life :S)
Thank you all for the enlightnment [:)]
Thanks for the lesson Batwad.
In portuguese we have four diferent ways for "them". 2 plural and 2 for gender.
(Obviously not expecting you to understand this): aquele/aquela (male/female, singular form), aqueles, aquelas (same/same, plural)
Unfortunately, in portuguese, i can't use "them" as in your example
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"Someone asked me for help so I helped them"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
as the prnoun has to agree with the subject in it's form (male/female). In these situations, we use what in English is employed as (e.g.)"<i>One</i> should[blá-blá-blá]"
Ok, no more of this, i brings back memories from the time i was at school and had Portuguese since the 3rd grade up until i was 17y.o. (my mom has a degree in Latin languages, imagine my life :S)
Thank you all for the enlightnment [:)]
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martyhopkirk