I've seen this lovely GSA Pallas advertised for £700. It's done 69K and is so cute.
No apparent oil leaks and rust on body. Opinions wanted!
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Should I buy a 1983 GSA Pallas?
Moderator: RichardW
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martyhopkirk
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by basil40</i>
I've seen this lovely GSA Pallas advertised for £700. It's done 69K and is so cute.
No apparent oil leaks and rust on body. Opinions wanted!
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Check for rust in the windscreen wiper cavity, especially near the left hand end. In both my GS and my Dad's one (many years ago now) this trough rusted out, allowing water in behind the dashboard, and also allowing water to run down BETWEEN the layers of the floor, rusting the floor out. (The floor is multiple layers)
Rust on any GS or GSA now is going to be a big problem due to age, also remember that the front wings are detachable and even if the wings look rust free there could be serious structural rust in the body members under the wings that wouldn't be visible with the wings on.
Check for oil leaks from the sides of the engine - there is a design fault which causes the o-rings that seal the bottom end of the oil drain tubes where they go from the heads to the sump to leak, which can be a fiddly job to replace. Because there is an engine undertray most oil leaks will NOT drip on the ground, they will drip into the tray.
Check the clutch life as its an engine out job. (All the front must come off then the engine lifted out... I've done it once...)
If you don't know the history of the timing belts they might need doing (can't remember the recommended interval) - this involves taking all the front middle off the car, bumpers, lights, undertray etc (not as hard as it sounds) and then all the front air cowling off the engine. The engine stays in place, and access is good once all the front is off.
Up until about 3 years ago my Mum still had a 1983 GSA Pallas and it snapped a timing belt and that was basically the end of the car, as it was uneconomic to repair it given the value of the car...
I remember my GS fondly (it was my first car afterall [:D]) but unless I was trying to build up a collection of classic cars I don't think I'd buy one today regardless of condition.
Excellent ride, fairly good handling, fantastic brakes, but relatively large amounts of body roll compared to even modern Citroen's let alone conventional cars, fairly low levels of sideways grip in cornering compared to modern cars due to high profile 145/155 tires on narrow 15" rims, and only average acceleration. If you get one with a good engine the engine is quite sprighty and willing, (the car only weighs 980Kg) and revs very well, but they are still only 1299cc 65bhp after all...
Regards,
Simon
I've seen this lovely GSA Pallas advertised for £700. It's done 69K and is so cute.
No apparent oil leaks and rust on body. Opinions wanted!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Check for rust in the windscreen wiper cavity, especially near the left hand end. In both my GS and my Dad's one (many years ago now) this trough rusted out, allowing water in behind the dashboard, and also allowing water to run down BETWEEN the layers of the floor, rusting the floor out. (The floor is multiple layers)
Rust on any GS or GSA now is going to be a big problem due to age, also remember that the front wings are detachable and even if the wings look rust free there could be serious structural rust in the body members under the wings that wouldn't be visible with the wings on.
Check for oil leaks from the sides of the engine - there is a design fault which causes the o-rings that seal the bottom end of the oil drain tubes where they go from the heads to the sump to leak, which can be a fiddly job to replace. Because there is an engine undertray most oil leaks will NOT drip on the ground, they will drip into the tray.
Check the clutch life as its an engine out job. (All the front must come off then the engine lifted out... I've done it once...)
If you don't know the history of the timing belts they might need doing (can't remember the recommended interval) - this involves taking all the front middle off the car, bumpers, lights, undertray etc (not as hard as it sounds) and then all the front air cowling off the engine. The engine stays in place, and access is good once all the front is off.
Up until about 3 years ago my Mum still had a 1983 GSA Pallas and it snapped a timing belt and that was basically the end of the car, as it was uneconomic to repair it given the value of the car...
I remember my GS fondly (it was my first car afterall [:D]) but unless I was trying to build up a collection of classic cars I don't think I'd buy one today regardless of condition.
Excellent ride, fairly good handling, fantastic brakes, but relatively large amounts of body roll compared to even modern Citroen's let alone conventional cars, fairly low levels of sideways grip in cornering compared to modern cars due to high profile 145/155 tires on narrow 15" rims, and only average acceleration. If you get one with a good engine the engine is quite sprighty and willing, (the car only weighs 980Kg) and revs very well, but they are still only 1299cc 65bhp after all...
Regards,
Simon
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DoubleChevron
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GS's are a brilliant car, there is simply no other small car in existance with the ride/handling comprimise of one.
It is also near impossible to find a good GS in Australia too. They have been worth so little for so long most of them have been driven into the ground.
If this one if good, and really has only done 69,000miles it deserves to go into a car collection. Using out on the satly roads as a daily car will turn it into your average rusted out GS in no time.
Preserve the few good ones !!! There is never going to be another car like the GS (or DS / CX come to that). Look how bland and boring all the modern cars are. They all drive in a similar fashion, all look like they came from the same mold........
Look aftr those GS/CX/DS/2cv's as there will be nothing like them again.
seeya,
Shane L.
It is also near impossible to find a good GS in Australia too. They have been worth so little for so long most of them have been driven into the ground.
If this one if good, and really has only done 69,000miles it deserves to go into a car collection. Using out on the satly roads as a daily car will turn it into your average rusted out GS in no time.
Preserve the few good ones !!! There is never going to be another car like the GS (or DS / CX come to that). Look how bland and boring all the modern cars are. They all drive in a similar fashion, all look like they came from the same mold........
Look aftr those GS/CX/DS/2cv's as there will be nothing like them again.
seeya,
Shane L.
It'll be rusty somwhere else, but if you like and want it then buy it. GSA Pallas' don't turn up every day, so the worst that can happen is you loose £700. My neighbours new car has lost £700 off its value this month alone.
Do It you'll regret it if you don't, but as you have described the car as 'cute' (which i'm sure it is) then I suggest taking someone with you to for a second opinion.
Paul.
Do It you'll regret it if you don't, but as you have described the car as 'cute' (which i'm sure it is) then I suggest taking someone with you to for a second opinion.
Paul.
I appreciate these responses. They didn't have galvanised zinc sheet in those days, that's why they rotted so easily. I asked the owner about the potential rust problem and he said that there was no evidence during the recent MOT test which it sailed thru. Some evidence of rust on the hem flange front near side panel - but will take my weak magnet with me!
Didn't know about the oil tray - will look out for that. Engine seems to drop out like the 2CV. In fact I think the engine is made of two 2CV blocks stuck together.
I have an activa so I know all about devaluation!!! I think the GSA is worth £200 more than mine now! might look at it tonight.
Didn't know about the oil tray - will look out for that. Engine seems to drop out like the 2CV. In fact I think the engine is made of two 2CV blocks stuck together.
I have an activa so I know all about devaluation!!! I think the GSA is worth £200 more than mine now! might look at it tonight.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I asked the owner about the potential rust problem and he said that there was no evidence during the recent MOT test which it sailed thru. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Don't take an MOT certificate as proof that its free of dangerous corrosion, unless its been issued by a testing station you know and trust!!
I have seen cars with test certificates which never should have had them, the worst one being a Fiesta with a new certificate where the inner sill structure had completely rusted itself away from the bulkhead, but you had to lift the carpets to see, which a tester isn't allowed do........buy the seller, so to speak, not the car, and if he won't let you lift the carpets,or put it on ramps and poke then leave it alone-£700 is a lot to spend!!!
Don't take an MOT certificate as proof that its free of dangerous corrosion, unless its been issued by a testing station you know and trust!!
I have seen cars with test certificates which never should have had them, the worst one being a Fiesta with a new certificate where the inner sill structure had completely rusted itself away from the bulkhead, but you had to lift the carpets to see, which a tester isn't allowed do........buy the seller, so to speak, not the car, and if he won't let you lift the carpets,or put it on ramps and poke then leave it alone-£700 is a lot to spend!!!
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madasafish
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sponix</i>
If you do decide to but it there is a "GS Club" (No MOT) on ebay for a tenner! Not sure what the differences are to the GSA but ideal for spares..
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Possibly not that useful for spares...a lot of the body panels are different from the GSA in much the same way as Mk1 and Mk2 Xantia's..
Engines are different - you can swap the entire engine but there are a lot of differences in things like the head between the 1220cc engine of the GS and the 1299cc engine of the GSA. There are also two version of the 1220cc engine with different heads and intake manifolds, so a spare engine for taking parts off will have limited value unless its the same 1299cc model.
The GS only had a 4 speed gearbox - the 5 speed gearbox of the GSA will fit but it needs some cutting of the bulkhead as the gearbox is longer. (Conversely, a 4 speed gearbox from the GS isn't much good as a replacement for the 5 speed in the GSA unless you want to loose a gear...)
Suspension and brakes are part compatible from what I remember, although the hydraulic tank is different.
Interior like dashboard etc is totally different.
If the "GS Club" is actually a 1015cc model, then there are MAJOR differences just about everywhere, including the brakes, the front brakes are completely different design to the 1220cc and 1299cc model. Different pads, pistons, mountings etc. Yet more differences in the engine compared to the 1220cc or 1299cc.
Regards,
Simon
If you do decide to but it there is a "GS Club" (No MOT) on ebay for a tenner! Not sure what the differences are to the GSA but ideal for spares..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Possibly not that useful for spares...a lot of the body panels are different from the GSA in much the same way as Mk1 and Mk2 Xantia's..
Engines are different - you can swap the entire engine but there are a lot of differences in things like the head between the 1220cc engine of the GS and the 1299cc engine of the GSA. There are also two version of the 1220cc engine with different heads and intake manifolds, so a spare engine for taking parts off will have limited value unless its the same 1299cc model.
The GS only had a 4 speed gearbox - the 5 speed gearbox of the GSA will fit but it needs some cutting of the bulkhead as the gearbox is longer. (Conversely, a 4 speed gearbox from the GS isn't much good as a replacement for the 5 speed in the GSA unless you want to loose a gear...)
Suspension and brakes are part compatible from what I remember, although the hydraulic tank is different.
Interior like dashboard etc is totally different.
If the "GS Club" is actually a 1015cc model, then there are MAJOR differences just about everywhere, including the brakes, the front brakes are completely different design to the 1220cc and 1299cc model. Different pads, pistons, mountings etc. Yet more differences in the engine compared to the 1220cc or 1299cc.
Regards,
Simon
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bxbodger</i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I asked the owner about the potential rust problem and he said that there was no evidence during the recent MOT test which it sailed thru. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Don't take an MOT certificate as proof that its free of dangerous corrosion, unless its been issued by a testing station you know and trust!!
I have seen cars with test certificates which never should have had them, the worst one being a Fiesta with a new certificate where the inner sill structure had completely rusted itself away from the bulkhead, but you had to lift the carpets to see, which a tester isn't allowed do........buy the seller, so to speak, not the car, and if he won't let you lift the carpets,or put it on ramps and poke then leave it alone-£700 is a lot to spend!!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Agreed.
The problems I mentioned with water getting down inbetween the floor layers and rusting the floor from the inside out usually won't be spotted by an MOT check until its very serious. On mine you could put a screwdriver through what looked like normal floor when I first noticed the problem [V]
I had to cut a whole section of floor out and replace it... As well as the leak in the windscreen wiper cavity, the actual bulkheads under the front wings have a box section design with lots of pockets and water can get trapped in there and start rusting the bulkheads out without anyone noticing.
There is one plus compared to later Citroen's though - the rear suspension arm bearings don't seem to fail [:D]
Regards,
Simon
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I asked the owner about the potential rust problem and he said that there was no evidence during the recent MOT test which it sailed thru. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Don't take an MOT certificate as proof that its free of dangerous corrosion, unless its been issued by a testing station you know and trust!!
I have seen cars with test certificates which never should have had them, the worst one being a Fiesta with a new certificate where the inner sill structure had completely rusted itself away from the bulkhead, but you had to lift the carpets to see, which a tester isn't allowed do........buy the seller, so to speak, not the car, and if he won't let you lift the carpets,or put it on ramps and poke then leave it alone-£700 is a lot to spend!!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Agreed.
The problems I mentioned with water getting down inbetween the floor layers and rusting the floor from the inside out usually won't be spotted by an MOT check until its very serious. On mine you could put a screwdriver through what looked like normal floor when I first noticed the problem [V]
I had to cut a whole section of floor out and replace it... As well as the leak in the windscreen wiper cavity, the actual bulkheads under the front wings have a box section design with lots of pockets and water can get trapped in there and start rusting the bulkheads out without anyone noticing.
There is one plus compared to later Citroen's though - the rear suspension arm bearings don't seem to fail [:D]
Regards,
Simon
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tomsheppard
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DoubleChevron
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Having driven a GS for a couple of years........ There brilliant .... Not fast, (the motors a little screamer) ... Unbelievably comfortable, brilliant handling, near indestructable (there's not much to go wrong). There not that noisy, you just have the comforting howl of a flat 4 motor howling along at about 5500rpm in top gear for hours at end.
I'd drive one as a daily car in a heartbeat (it would have to be a good one though).
Much like most cars of the 70's it's biggest downfall is ventilation and cooling it in summer. The driveshafts are quite fragile is about the only weak mechanical component.
seeya,
Shane L.
I'd drive one as a daily car in a heartbeat (it would have to be a good one though).
Much like most cars of the 70's it's biggest downfall is ventilation and cooling it in summer. The driveshafts are quite fragile is about the only weak mechanical component.
seeya,
Shane L.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tomsheppard</i>
No, but the rear axles do...
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Axle ???
There is no axle.... unless you mean the anti-roll bar which is just a straight torsion bar with splines on the end connecting to the arms, and integrated with the arm bearings and acting as the arm pivot.
Totally different (and superior IMHO) design to the rear arm bearings of later models like the CX which ALWAYS fail at a certain age. The tendency of the weight of the car to put sideways twist on the bearings (CX etc) is eliminated on the GS since the torsion bar is the pivot for the bearings and goes right from one side to the other so the twisting moment of both sides is canceled.
I've seen several GS's in the 20-30 year old range (including my own '77 and my Dad's '74) that have finally been put to pasture due to the body rusting away but the rear suspension arm bearings were still working perfectly. (And the front for that matter)
Regards,
Simon
No, but the rear axles do...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Axle ???
There is no axle.... unless you mean the anti-roll bar which is just a straight torsion bar with splines on the end connecting to the arms, and integrated with the arm bearings and acting as the arm pivot.
Totally different (and superior IMHO) design to the rear arm bearings of later models like the CX which ALWAYS fail at a certain age. The tendency of the weight of the car to put sideways twist on the bearings (CX etc) is eliminated on the GS since the torsion bar is the pivot for the bearings and goes right from one side to the other so the twisting moment of both sides is canceled.
I've seen several GS's in the 20-30 year old range (including my own '77 and my Dad's '74) that have finally been put to pasture due to the body rusting away but the rear suspension arm bearings were still working perfectly. (And the front for that matter)
Regards,
Simon