Hi guys
My local cit specialist made a statement recently that I would value your feedback on. He reckons that the Xant is the most reliable of all their models (all things being equal, and assuming proper servicing of course). Philippe is an enthusiast and has a wealth of experience on just about every model going. He has recently restored a CX that would make you drool, and his son hacks about in a DS and a GSA. I mention this to give a bit of context. They reckon that there was a synchronicity of design, engineering and experience in the Xant that makes it so reliable, comfortable and good-looking.
What do other members think? Is he talking balls? (Or spheres [:)])
Xantia - the most reliable cit ever?
Moderator: RichardW
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madasafish
- Posts: 192
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"Most reliable of all Citroen models"?
That's not much of a recommendation.
Most relaible of all Toyotas would be something.
But Citroen make cars that require constant servicing and TLC to counter the built in design faults and low specced electrics...(they have to be low specced to save money as the hi-tech stuff costs to amke)
That's not much of a recommendation.
Most relaible of all Toyotas would be something.
But Citroen make cars that require constant servicing and TLC to counter the built in design faults and low specced electrics...(they have to be low specced to save money as the hi-tech stuff costs to amke)
I would have to agree about the good looking side of the argument. I think the Xantia looks great, especially when you compare it to the Mondeos and Escorts built around the same time. It looks even better that the later Xsara in my opinion and it hasn't really dated yet.
Reliability wise, apart from rountine maintenance (which you have to do on every car) my Xant has been very good to me for 4 years and 67k. Well I have had the gearbox and a couple of v.important hoses fail, but its an 11 year old car afterall. I think with the electrics they either tend to be good or riddled with gremlins.
Reliability wise, apart from rountine maintenance (which you have to do on every car) my Xant has been very good to me for 4 years and 67k. Well I have had the gearbox and a couple of v.important hoses fail, but its an 11 year old car afterall. I think with the electrics they either tend to be good or riddled with gremlins.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by madasafish</i>
"Most reliable of all Citroen models"?
That's not much of a recommendation.
Most relaible of all Toyotas would be something.
But Citroen make cars that require constant servicing and TLC to counter the built in design faults and low specced electrics...(they have to be low specced to save money as the hi-tech stuff costs to amke)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Can't agree with that, at least with some of the older models, although they suffer more than their fair share of silly faults (of the broken plastic dodads type) if they're well maintained they're not any more unreliable than a lot of other cars, sometimes even better.
Nearly all the problems that I've seen in Citroen's especially with the suspension is caused by neglect or ignorance on the part of previous owners and/or mechanics.
Any time that you buy a Citroen second hand, particulary hydropneumatic models, you're highly likely to run into problems simply because people don't know how to maintain them. There will always be skeletons in the closet.
Obvious things like flat/dead spheres, LHM filthy dirty, bearings or balljoints in the suspension not being replaced, sticky height corrector linkages due to never operating the height lever, struts that need lubricating, etc...and also abuse, such as incorrectly fitting seals on spheres or pipes causing leaks, fitting wrong spheres, putting brake fluid into the hydraulic system, driving the car with the suspension right up or down, or with flat spheres, and so on...I've seen it all [:D]
I've found that after doing the correct maintainance to bring a second hand car up to scratch, (leaving no stone unturned) that its pretty normal to get many years of trouble free service from the suspension after that....(snapped plastic height corrector linkages on Xantia's excepted, they do seem to be a genuine flaw)
As long as Citroen are the only make using hydropneumatic suspension, this poor maitainance due to ignorance is always going to be a problem...
One thing that *is* Citroen's fault that contributes to this, is the extreme difficulty in obtaining genuine Citroen service manuals, as people here will know, try to get yourself a genuine Citroen service manual for a Xantia for example! Instead, most people are forced to get by on the Haynes manuals, which all told, are crap, and really do Citroen a big disservice. (Haynes manuals now go beyond poor nowadays, they are now into the downright misleading and confusing category)
Citroen should be going out of their way to make their genuine service manuals easy to obtain by anyone that wants one in the interests of their cars being serviced better, better understood, and less feared when it comes to the hydraulics etc, rather than trying to make money from selling service manuals or protect their service dealer network.... lots of poorly maintained poorly understood Citroen's being on the second hand market no doubt contributes to their poor resale value.
I've lost count of how many times people come onto this forum with what they think is a seemingly expensive and/or insolvable mystery, only to find out that when other people explain the basic workings of the suspension to them, (which is no doubt covered in detail in the genuine manuals, if my GS service manuals were anything to go by) that they find its actually not that complicated at all, and they often solve the problem themselves with a little bit of prodding in the right direction.
Also don't forget that its very common for people to neglect the suspension on other cars too - its just that the effect is less obvious. A 10+ year old car with conventional suspension will usually have saggy springs and/or worn out shock absorbers, and because they never *completely* fail like the spheres on a Citroen eventually do, people just put up with it, and never bother to do anything about it... in fact I'd say that worn out shock absorbers on conventional suspension cars 10+ years old is the norm rather than the exception...
Regards,
Simon
"Most reliable of all Citroen models"?
That's not much of a recommendation.
Most relaible of all Toyotas would be something.
But Citroen make cars that require constant servicing and TLC to counter the built in design faults and low specced electrics...(they have to be low specced to save money as the hi-tech stuff costs to amke)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Can't agree with that, at least with some of the older models, although they suffer more than their fair share of silly faults (of the broken plastic dodads type) if they're well maintained they're not any more unreliable than a lot of other cars, sometimes even better.
Nearly all the problems that I've seen in Citroen's especially with the suspension is caused by neglect or ignorance on the part of previous owners and/or mechanics.
Any time that you buy a Citroen second hand, particulary hydropneumatic models, you're highly likely to run into problems simply because people don't know how to maintain them. There will always be skeletons in the closet.
Obvious things like flat/dead spheres, LHM filthy dirty, bearings or balljoints in the suspension not being replaced, sticky height corrector linkages due to never operating the height lever, struts that need lubricating, etc...and also abuse, such as incorrectly fitting seals on spheres or pipes causing leaks, fitting wrong spheres, putting brake fluid into the hydraulic system, driving the car with the suspension right up or down, or with flat spheres, and so on...I've seen it all [:D]
I've found that after doing the correct maintainance to bring a second hand car up to scratch, (leaving no stone unturned) that its pretty normal to get many years of trouble free service from the suspension after that....(snapped plastic height corrector linkages on Xantia's excepted, they do seem to be a genuine flaw)
As long as Citroen are the only make using hydropneumatic suspension, this poor maitainance due to ignorance is always going to be a problem...
One thing that *is* Citroen's fault that contributes to this, is the extreme difficulty in obtaining genuine Citroen service manuals, as people here will know, try to get yourself a genuine Citroen service manual for a Xantia for example! Instead, most people are forced to get by on the Haynes manuals, which all told, are crap, and really do Citroen a big disservice. (Haynes manuals now go beyond poor nowadays, they are now into the downright misleading and confusing category)
Citroen should be going out of their way to make their genuine service manuals easy to obtain by anyone that wants one in the interests of their cars being serviced better, better understood, and less feared when it comes to the hydraulics etc, rather than trying to make money from selling service manuals or protect their service dealer network.... lots of poorly maintained poorly understood Citroen's being on the second hand market no doubt contributes to their poor resale value.
I've lost count of how many times people come onto this forum with what they think is a seemingly expensive and/or insolvable mystery, only to find out that when other people explain the basic workings of the suspension to them, (which is no doubt covered in detail in the genuine manuals, if my GS service manuals were anything to go by) that they find its actually not that complicated at all, and they often solve the problem themselves with a little bit of prodding in the right direction.
Also don't forget that its very common for people to neglect the suspension on other cars too - its just that the effect is less obvious. A 10+ year old car with conventional suspension will usually have saggy springs and/or worn out shock absorbers, and because they never *completely* fail like the spheres on a Citroen eventually do, people just put up with it, and never bother to do anything about it... in fact I'd say that worn out shock absorbers on conventional suspension cars 10+ years old is the norm rather than the exception...
Regards,
Simon
Hmmm...well, judging by the reviews I read before buying a Xantia, most of the people on there have had only minor niggles, with just the odd one being really pi55ed off with their Xantia. My mate at college (many years ago) had a '92 ZX Volcane 1.9i, and whilst the rest of the car was reliable, the engine started burning oil badly and running like a dog. Boy did that thing shift though! Great fun.
I actually bought my Xantia because my experience with BMW's was a nightmare and I wanted nice uneventful car ownership. So far, I've only had to replace a sphere and get the cam belt done as part of normal maintenance. In the first month of my 320i ownership the following parts were replaced:
New fuel tank: £400 plus fitting
New front discs and pads (they kept warping): £160
New prop shaft centre bearing: £30 plus fitting - not a small job.
Then after a few months the rest went wrong:
New water pump: £45 plus fitting
New balljoint: £15 plus fitting
New ECU: £150 plus diagnosis fee
New suspension bushes: £75
New door latch: £70 plus fitting
I never did get round to fixing the wiper arm hitting the bonnet and taking chunks out of it, the squeaky steering wheel, the squeaky drivers seat, the rattly timing chain, the cracked foglights, the rotting window seals and the notchy gearbox.
Bloody thing.
Still the Xantia soldiers on and only needs a few new spheres, new drop links and a trip to Mr Derv Doctor for a stage I tune (90bhp & 144ft/lb is nowhere near enough for a car that weighs this much). It does make some funny noises but has not let me down yet and gives a consistent 42mpg even with the air con on and my toe down. Nice.
I actually bought my Xantia because my experience with BMW's was a nightmare and I wanted nice uneventful car ownership. So far, I've only had to replace a sphere and get the cam belt done as part of normal maintenance. In the first month of my 320i ownership the following parts were replaced:
New fuel tank: £400 plus fitting
New front discs and pads (they kept warping): £160
New prop shaft centre bearing: £30 plus fitting - not a small job.
Then after a few months the rest went wrong:
New water pump: £45 plus fitting
New balljoint: £15 plus fitting
New ECU: £150 plus diagnosis fee
New suspension bushes: £75
New door latch: £70 plus fitting
I never did get round to fixing the wiper arm hitting the bonnet and taking chunks out of it, the squeaky steering wheel, the squeaky drivers seat, the rattly timing chain, the cracked foglights, the rotting window seals and the notchy gearbox.
Bloody thing.
Still the Xantia soldiers on and only needs a few new spheres, new drop links and a trip to Mr Derv Doctor for a stage I tune (90bhp & 144ft/lb is nowhere near enough for a car that weighs this much). It does make some funny noises but has not let me down yet and gives a consistent 42mpg even with the air con on and my toe down. Nice.
I am an enthusiast of Citroens but they are quirky and are one of the worst marques when it comes to reliability and durability. I agree that they need treating correctly but they don't, so we have to accept reality. As proof of that you do not find forums like this for Honda, Toyota etc. In my experience Xantias are renowned for the following faults; suspension, ABS, door hinges, brakes, the odd gearbox, electrics, door locks, just a few!
If you were looking to buy an old one and you are not able to do the jobs yourself then look to a nice and bland Toyota.
Yes,I do run a Xantia, they are cheap and innovative. Great diesels.
If you were looking to buy an old one and you are not able to do the jobs yourself then look to a nice and bland Toyota.
Yes,I do run a Xantia, they are cheap and innovative. Great diesels.
And I thought that the Xantia was sold as an improved BX!! They do seem to have addressed many of the faults of the BX....
I can only speak for the BX and mine has been very good- its very like a 70's BL car in many ways, which is probably why I like it-
Super ride and comfort, but let down by Red Robbo type sloppy build quality and silly niggly faults which really shouldn't have been there- most of them are design related rather than maintenance related.
I had to repipe it (its an 89)-luckily a job which the Xantia owners are spared, and which wouldn't have been neccesary had the piping been properly specified in the first place- had I not been able to do the job myself it would have been economically unviable and off to the scrapper, and the wiring is atrocious- I have only had two cars with worse quality wiring- both rear engined Skoda's ( again, cars which luckily possessed other redeeming features...)
And the lack of a temperature gauge was unforgiveable- I wonder how many BX's went to their graves because of overheating not being seen until its too late to fix........
Overall I suspect that Xantia reliability is very goood- for a long time the Xantia, like the BX before it, was very popular as a minicab, alomg with the Primera and the Avensis, and cabbies know a reliable runner when they see one!!!
I can only speak for the BX and mine has been very good- its very like a 70's BL car in many ways, which is probably why I like it-
Super ride and comfort, but let down by Red Robbo type sloppy build quality and silly niggly faults which really shouldn't have been there- most of them are design related rather than maintenance related.
I had to repipe it (its an 89)-luckily a job which the Xantia owners are spared, and which wouldn't have been neccesary had the piping been properly specified in the first place- had I not been able to do the job myself it would have been economically unviable and off to the scrapper, and the wiring is atrocious- I have only had two cars with worse quality wiring- both rear engined Skoda's ( again, cars which luckily possessed other redeeming features...)
And the lack of a temperature gauge was unforgiveable- I wonder how many BX's went to their graves because of overheating not being seen until its too late to fix........
Overall I suspect that Xantia reliability is very goood- for a long time the Xantia, like the BX before it, was very popular as a minicab, alomg with the Primera and the Avensis, and cabbies know a reliable runner when they see one!!!
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madasafish
- Posts: 192
- Joined: 01 Sep 2004, 14:20
- Location:
- My Cars:
I hav eowned or driven the following in the past 15 years:
Mercedes 260E coy car: new steering lock, front wishbone tore from body(not a crash). Otherwise no faults 100k miles
Rover 800/825 coy cars : head gaskets/trim/exhausts/clutch Numerous electrical. Worst new cars ever had but no choice.
Audi A4 TDI: Front wishbones/Aircon/catalysts all under warranty 100k miles
Ford Sierra: no faults 80k.
Ford Fiesta: No faults 20k miles.
3 x BMW 3 series. 318/320/318 new and s/h: No faults of any sort in 70k miles. NONE!
Peugoet 106 diesel (wife's): 2 x new clutch cable. New clutch operating lever. 2x lower wishbone balljoints. (disks/pads and exhaust fair wear and tear).12 years and 45k miles
Says it all...
Mercedes 260E coy car: new steering lock, front wishbone tore from body(not a crash). Otherwise no faults 100k miles
Rover 800/825 coy cars : head gaskets/trim/exhausts/clutch Numerous electrical. Worst new cars ever had but no choice.
Audi A4 TDI: Front wishbones/Aircon/catalysts all under warranty 100k miles
Ford Sierra: no faults 80k.
Ford Fiesta: No faults 20k miles.
3 x BMW 3 series. 318/320/318 new and s/h: No faults of any sort in 70k miles. NONE!
Peugoet 106 diesel (wife's): 2 x new clutch cable. New clutch operating lever. 2x lower wishbone balljoints. (disks/pads and exhaust fair wear and tear).12 years and 45k miles
Says it all...
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by James.UK</i>
Most reliable Cit has to be the ZX 1.9D. pre 1994 face lift.. No cat, no ECU, no hydro suspension, no tubo's or air con to go wrong. They are about as reliable as a cit can get. [:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I have to agree on that. I own a 1994 2.0 and its very relliable. Only problems now are a leaking radiator (soon to be fixed), worn dampers (now on it's second set) and worn drop links (first set).
Besides that, everything is OK, never left me stranded and comfortable as it can get. Only fuel economy is a concern with the oil prices going up.
Most reliable Cit has to be the ZX 1.9D. pre 1994 face lift.. No cat, no ECU, no hydro suspension, no tubo's or air con to go wrong. They are about as reliable as a cit can get. [:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I have to agree on that. I own a 1994 2.0 and its very relliable. Only problems now are a leaking radiator (soon to be fixed), worn dampers (now on it's second set) and worn drop links (first set).
Besides that, everything is OK, never left me stranded and comfortable as it can get. Only fuel economy is a concern with the oil prices going up.