hi guys
my radiator fans are not working and i have air con witch does not work ive tried the feeds to the brown sensor on the thermostat housing and checked the fuses and all seems ok. anybody know were the connections are for the fan motors so,s i can put a direct feed to them to find out if there working surely i don,t have to take the rad out to get at these also the fact the that the the air con is not working could that also be the couse of the prob.
pete...........................
xantia fans not working update
Moderator: RichardW
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pete@co.uk
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Find the Bitron relay which I am told on some is behind the RH headlight and on others it's in a box with the ECU and pull the plug out. If the fans then spin at full bore, that takes the fans out of the equation.
The air con will never work particularly at low speeds with no condensor fans, so sort them first to see if they are the problem or the air/con is, but personally, if the car isn't cutting on when hot and not triggering the air/con, chances are the problem is more fan related than air/con.
Alan S
The air con will never work particularly at low speeds with no condensor fans, so sort them first to see if they are the problem or the air/con is, but personally, if the car isn't cutting on when hot and not triggering the air/con, chances are the problem is more fan related than air/con.
Alan S
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pete@co.uk
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hi alans and thanks
well the air con switch inside the car is knackerd or so the last owner tells me so he,s (hot wired!) a switch to the blower motor inside the car so it,s either full on or not at all and bypassed the auto and blower speed switch i don,t know if that would cause a problem (another job for me later on) so how do i identify the bitron relay.
regards
pete............................
well the air con switch inside the car is knackerd or so the last owner tells me so he,s (hot wired!) a switch to the blower motor inside the car so it,s either full on or not at all and bypassed the auto and blower speed switch i don,t know if that would cause a problem (another job for me later on) so how do i identify the bitron relay.
regards
pete............................
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RichardW
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Don't worry about the Bitron to start with - just pull the brown plug off the thermostat housing. Both fans should now run at full bore (even with the ignition off - and I had to switch the ignition on to get them to go off, even after I reconnected the sensor). Does your car have climate control? The A/C switch should be easy to pull out and test, and easy to replace if it is shot - can't see it somehow though! Previous owner sounds like one who rides a horse and wears a big hat....!
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pete@co.uk
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Hi Richard
Thanks for your reply if i pull the brown plug off nothing happens i even bridged the plug and all i hear is the clicking of the relays thats it. where do i go from there. sounds about right about the previus owner how can i test the switch also the switch has an auto setting i don,t know if thats climate control but i dont think it is. ive been told it by a cit machanic that it could be a resistor on the blower motor thats at fault what do you think
pete...............................
Thanks for your reply if i pull the brown plug off nothing happens i even bridged the plug and all i hear is the clicking of the relays thats it. where do i go from there. sounds about right about the previus owner how can i test the switch also the switch has an auto setting i don,t know if thats climate control but i dont think it is. ive been told it by a cit machanic that it could be a resistor on the blower motor thats at fault what do you think
pete...............................
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pete@co.uk
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hi agian
well ive got one of the fans working by messing about with the relays in the middle of the 2 fans now it comes on only with the brown thermostat plug unplugged if i run the engine up to over 90c the fans do not come on as soon as i unplug the plug the fan goes at full bore so this i think points toward the thermostat switch is knackard but that still does,nt tell me whythe other fan does not work all fuses are ok and all the relays are clicking altough i suppose there could still be a dodgy relay what do you think guys
pete..................
well ive got one of the fans working by messing about with the relays in the middle of the 2 fans now it comes on only with the brown thermostat plug unplugged if i run the engine up to over 90c the fans do not come on as soon as i unplug the plug the fan goes at full bore so this i think points toward the thermostat switch is knackard but that still does,nt tell me whythe other fan does not work all fuses are ok and all the relays are clicking altough i suppose there could still be a dodgy relay what do you think guys
pete..................
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RichardW
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Pete,
The fans are wired to give 2 speeds by either running them in series or parallel. The fact that you can only get one to run at full speed suggests that the one that isn't running is kaput. This will mean that neither will run when the system calls for half speed. The fact that fan comes on when you unplug the brown sensor suggests that the sensor and bitron are working. Your next step is going to have to be getting to the not working fan and getting it out and overhauled (see several other threads about that!).
If the car has climate control, the temperature scale will have numbers on it.
The fans are wired to give 2 speeds by either running them in series or parallel. The fact that you can only get one to run at full speed suggests that the one that isn't running is kaput. This will mean that neither will run when the system calls for half speed. The fact that fan comes on when you unplug the brown sensor suggests that the sensor and bitron are working. Your next step is going to have to be getting to the not working fan and getting it out and overhauled (see several other threads about that!).
If the car has climate control, the temperature scale will have numbers on it.
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pete@co.uk
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hi Richard
thanks for the info well i got both fans to run tonight after giving the nearside one a little nuge in reverse wich in turn moved the other fan the right way then i took the brown plug off the engine the right hand fan started ok with ign on then i gave the other fan a nudge (with a screwdriver of course) and off it went but not at full speed started the engine and let it run with the brown plug off for a good five minutes like this, (by the way ive also changed the relays now). anyway replaced brown plug let engine get really hot fans did not come on so gave the offending fan a little nudge agian and away it went then when the temp hit 100 the fan thats working ok came on and cooled the engine down to 85 then cut off it repeated this sequence about three time,s before i swiched the engine off so ive come to conclusion i need another nearside fan also do you think the brown sensor on the engine is working ok becouse i have a replacement if i need to use it what do you think.
pete.................................
thanks for the info well i got both fans to run tonight after giving the nearside one a little nuge in reverse wich in turn moved the other fan the right way then i took the brown plug off the engine the right hand fan started ok with ign on then i gave the other fan a nudge (with a screwdriver of course) and off it went but not at full speed started the engine and let it run with the brown plug off for a good five minutes like this, (by the way ive also changed the relays now). anyway replaced brown plug let engine get really hot fans did not come on so gave the offending fan a little nudge agian and away it went then when the temp hit 100 the fan thats working ok came on and cooled the engine down to 85 then cut off it repeated this sequence about three time,s before i swiched the engine off so ive come to conclusion i need another nearside fan also do you think the brown sensor on the engine is working ok becouse i have a replacement if i need to use it what do you think.
pete.................................
Seems like the wheel's gone the full circle here.
Now, the fan that has died will be the same as the one I described in that write up, so remember if the car is one with air/con and if this is the first time the fans have been out, both have spun as many recs as each other, so what does that tell you about the fan that is presently running????
Either do them both, or be prepared to do the other within 12 months.
That's what happened to mine and once I pulled them apart I could see the reason why. They have carbon brushes, spring loaded, so the only reason one has outlasted the other is due to the spring tension on the brushes and the eveness of the commutator, apart from that, they have both done the same amount of work.
Alan S
Now, the fan that has died will be the same as the one I described in that write up, so remember if the car is one with air/con and if this is the first time the fans have been out, both have spun as many recs as each other, so what does that tell you about the fan that is presently running????
Either do them both, or be prepared to do the other within 12 months.
That's what happened to mine and once I pulled them apart I could see the reason why. They have carbon brushes, spring loaded, so the only reason one has outlasted the other is due to the spring tension on the brushes and the eveness of the commutator, apart from that, they have both done the same amount of work.
Alan S
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DoubleChevron
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If you can find the radiator fan unit out of a CX I'd be installing that.
I've just had mine apart.... They are brilliantly built and designed fans. The is 4 massively long brushes, a very deeply cut commentator, and the front bearing is a proper sealed rollerbearing (it was dry on mine that's why I pulled them apart). The rear bearing is a brass bush that appears to look brand new.
Though my CX is 20years old, you would swear the radiator fans were still new ... They seriously have little to no wear at all evident. If I have problems with my Xantia fans, I'll dump some CX radiator fans into it (hopefully they'll fit).
seeya,
Shane L.
I've just had mine apart.... They are brilliantly built and designed fans. The is 4 massively long brushes, a very deeply cut commentator, and the front bearing is a proper sealed rollerbearing (it was dry on mine that's why I pulled them apart). The rear bearing is a brass bush that appears to look brand new.
Though my CX is 20years old, you would swear the radiator fans were still new ... They seriously have little to no wear at all evident. If I have problems with my Xantia fans, I'll dump some CX radiator fans into it (hopefully they'll fit).
seeya,
Shane L.
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pete@co.uk
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by pete@co.uk</i>
alans & DoubleChevron
thanks guys for the info. well good bit of advice alans ok the next big question is how do i get the fans out.
pete........................
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
As Malcolm has said, they can be done without it being a major demolition job, but I would ad a caveat here; I possibly would do the next ones that way becaus I have already done the job once and once you see it apart, you do tend to think "Well, if only I'd known that I could have saved myself a lot of work" but without the benefit of hindsight, I do believe it is a more complicated way of doing it.
Personally, I would do the full front off bit. I did it by myself, however with an offsider it would be much quicker and easier.
From memory, it took about 3/4 hours to strip the front off. That includes bumper, headlights, cross piece that the bonnet catch is bolted to and then lifting the entire fan mount assembly out.
It might sound confusing, but it's more time consuming than technical; basically like a jigsaw; just keep pulling bits off until you get to the fans and then everything that comes off can only go back one way.
Hope that's some help for you.
Alan S
alans & DoubleChevron
thanks guys for the info. well good bit of advice alans ok the next big question is how do i get the fans out.
pete........................
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
As Malcolm has said, they can be done without it being a major demolition job, but I would ad a caveat here; I possibly would do the next ones that way becaus I have already done the job once and once you see it apart, you do tend to think "Well, if only I'd known that I could have saved myself a lot of work" but without the benefit of hindsight, I do believe it is a more complicated way of doing it.
Personally, I would do the full front off bit. I did it by myself, however with an offsider it would be much quicker and easier.
From memory, it took about 3/4 hours to strip the front off. That includes bumper, headlights, cross piece that the bonnet catch is bolted to and then lifting the entire fan mount assembly out.
It might sound confusing, but it's more time consuming than technical; basically like a jigsaw; just keep pulling bits off until you get to the fans and then everything that comes off can only go back one way.
Hope that's some help for you.
Alan S
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pete@co.uk
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pete@co.uk
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hi guys
OK coming back to this ive still got the problem with the fan becouse i cant get it out looks like i have to remove the radiator then the intercooler then the aircon rad at the front i got the rad half way out then got stuck on that bottom hose removed that (by the way to anyone who,s reading this i put a jubilee clip on that hose and did away with the silly clip that was on there!) then i found another hose half way up the rad with another silly clip then i got stuck there as i could,nt get anything on the clip to remove it so i had to abort the job and put everything back together [B)] anybody else had this problem. trouble is everthings so compact under the bonnet not enough room to swing a cat. or does anyone know an easy,er way without removing the rad but i can,t see any other way of doing it.
pete.....................................
OK coming back to this ive still got the problem with the fan becouse i cant get it out looks like i have to remove the radiator then the intercooler then the aircon rad at the front i got the rad half way out then got stuck on that bottom hose removed that (by the way to anyone who,s reading this i put a jubilee clip on that hose and did away with the silly clip that was on there!) then i found another hose half way up the rad with another silly clip then i got stuck there as i could,nt get anything on the clip to remove it so i had to abort the job and put everything back together [B)] anybody else had this problem. trouble is everthings so compact under the bonnet not enough room to swing a cat. or does anyone know an easy,er way without removing the rad but i can,t see any other way of doing it.
pete.....................................