Difference in XUD engines and Pug/ Citroen

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 27 Jun 2005, 22:44

Wierd query now..... Just spent the last week in France visiting my folks, and my dad drives my old 1995 405 GLX 1.9 TD Saloon. Now, I had the opportunity to drive it too whilst there (bringing all the memories flooding back) and I noticed it felt very different to my 1999 Xantia, engine response wise. There's hardly any torque below 2200rpm and then the turbo spins up and away we go, whereas in my Xantia the engine is almost pulling at 1800rpm onwards. Obviously on mine the turbo isn't spinning yet, but it just feels much more lively at lower rpm. Is the turbo smaller or something on the newer ones? Or is it something to do with the difference in intercooler location?
Otherwise the 405 handled MUCH better than my Xantia with far less body roll, eating corners like they weren't there, just with poorer ride quality and pathetic feeble brakes. The French roads are absolutley littered with PSA cars though....Xantias (MkI and II), 405's (mostly MKI's), CX's (tons of these fat nosed things which surprised me), BX's, ZX's, XM's etc etc etc.
Getting back in my air conditioned Xantia with my 6 disc changer was heaven once we'd landed back in the UK......ahhhh, comfort.....[:D]

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Jun 2005, 23:16

Funny you should post this Chrispy, I drove my son's 405 1.9 TD the other day. It was mine until five months ago and I came to exactly the same conclusions as you. It felt stodgy to me. Intercooler maybe. The Xantia one is massive and right in the cold airflow, much to the distain of the coolant rad! Some say it's not so good as the 405 "top loader" one but on the Xantia I notice far less heat-soak problems causing power loss when taking off from a long stand. I believe otherwise the engines are pretty much identical.
Oh yes, the brakes. Scary! and I know they're in tip top condition. My little Pug 205 has pretty scary anchors too but then, after the "modded" Xantia brakes I think we'd find most other braking systems failing give satisfaction. Modded Xantia brakes are simply magical...

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Jun 2005, 23:25

To add, I have come to the conclusion that the Xantia is a better car in nearly every way to the 405. After driving my old one and then getting straight back in my Xantia there is no contest in my opinion. I've owned 405s a long time and really loved them until the Xantia and still do for their sheer toughness, ease of working on and utter reliability but the Xantia has it in nearly every way for me. Time may tell maybe..

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Jun 2005, 23:28

Another add, but well off topic, arn't the French lucky. A smashing country, great roads, beautiful language, wonderful food and true French cars they can call their own. Last time I was there it did not go unnoticed how many home-grown cars there were running around.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 28 Jun 2005, 00:24

Many Peugeot 206's? - made in that fine French City of Coventry?
Jeremy

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 28 Jun 2005, 00:53

There are two different turbos, (KKK or Garrett) and three different injection pumps, 2 mechanical (Lucas + Bosch) one mechanical with electronic advance (Bosch) fitted to the XUD9 as well as various air filters, catalysts and intercoolers. It all adds up to make different versions of the same engine behave very differently. A blocked CAT and dirty air filter can make a big difference too.

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 28 Jun 2005, 16:27

Lol. No, the amount of 206's was minimal oddly enough. The same went for 307's, 309's, and 106's. The just love their Xantia's though....the things were everywhere!
As for my dad's 405, the air filter hasn't been changed for aaaaaaages....the daft sod hoovers the thing out instead. Same goes for the fuel filter. It also has no cat....I got under it and just saw a nice straight through pipe instead. Lovely.... The car did feel a lot more sporty to drive though due to the firmer suspension and better handling. Not as comfy and as refined but definitely more dynamic. Then we got absolutely annihilated by a French lunatic in an Mi16.....now that was quick....
The seats in the 405 felt better as it has the sports ones fitted, but the main thing was the poor way the thing responded to the pedals. The brakes were feeeeeeeble as hell and the the throttle....well, you had to press it a lot more to get the same engine response. Is there anything on the Xantia that governs body roll? I envied that on the Pug....much much better. Even unexpected corners were taken with ease.... The Xantia feels like you have to push it a lot more before it starts to resist body roll...by that point you're practically on 2 wheels!
As for the country itself, yeah it was ok. The heat was almost unbearable. 40 degrees most days and 24 on a night. Sleeping was impossible. The air con in my dads 405 doesn't work due to a leak emptying all the gas out years ago and so we kept burning ourselves on the interior everytime we got in!
Foodwise, it was fairly nice, but expensive. They haven't quite got out of the Nouvelle Quisine mindset yet and as such give you little portions of food that look nice on your plate, and then charge you £30 for the priviledge. Beer was £5 a pint, and condsidering none of it was imported I was pretty surprised by that. Still, it didn't stop me pickling my liver for the week!
Such a lack of women too....I was really dissapointed....the first decent girls I clocked eyes on were at the airport on the way back and they were British too! Sigh...

VisaGTi16v · Post by **VisaGTi16v** » 28 Jun 2005, 16:49

Jim: I was in France 2 weekends back for the Le Mans 24 hour and ive never seen so many LNA's etc in my life! none of them rusty either and a load of Visa's. Probably for the best that I didnt see a GTi else I would have bought it and driven it home somehow

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 30 Jun 2005, 00:21

Its unfair to compare the Xant and the 405, the BX is really more contemporary with the 405, in addition to the developmental changes I think the Xant is heavier, but there is definitely a range of preformance available from what is essentially the same engine, I own a Volcane TD which feels far nippier than the BX with the same engine albeit the ZX is actually heavier, there are good uns from every car plant I am sure, having played around with boosting a little bit a few very small differences can add up to a great deal indeed.
Stewart

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 30 Jun 2005, 04:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Foodwise, it was fairly nice, but expensive. They haven't quite got out of the Nouvelle Quisine mindset yet and as such give you little portions of food that look nice on your plate, and then charge you £30 for the priviledge. Beer was £5 a pint<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Where on earth were you drinking, Sweden??????!!!!!![:0] I have never paid that much, even in Cannes or Antibes!!!!
My favourite place to scoff in France is the Bleriot restaurant in the Auchan hypermarket in Calais- lovely steak with the blood oozing, excellent sauces,and a couple of pints as well, 40 euros for a family of four!!I would recommend it to anyone, we always go there on the way home from hols or just on a booze cruise.
We were in the Jura area this year, Franche-Comte, and my eldest girl doing French at school wanted to go to a "proper" French restaurant. I had my doubts about what she would find, but we went into one on top of the Ballons d'Alsace, and, of course, the Rabbit Pate starter, apparently a local delicacy, set the tone!!
"I'm not eating that!!!!" This was followed by a most excellent steak in shallotte sauce, but because it had cheval in its title convinced them they were eating horse, it just went from bad to worse.....the upshot was that I ended up eating nearly four dinners as it was so tasty, and I don't like waste!!
This was a pretty posh restaurant, but it still only came to about £40 English.
I think you were done.....and this is a long way from 405 v Xantia....

Post by **Richard Green** » 30 Jun 2005, 05:41

when I came off the oil rigs no one ever drank the booze because it was so expensive Noway that is.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 02 Jul 2005, 01:37

Horse! yup beef is actually a slower imitation, when I see the "boucherie chevaline" I always buy some, delicious.
Stewart

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 04 Jul 2005, 00:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bxbodger

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Foodwise, it was fairly nice, but expensive. They haven't quite got out of the Nouvelle Quisine mindset yet and as such give you little portions of food that look nice on your plate, and then charge you £30 for the priviledge. Beer was £5 a pint<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Where on earth were you drinking, Sweden??????!!!!!![:0] I have never paid that much, even in Cannes or Antibes!!!!
My favourite place to scoff in France is the Bleriot restaurant in the Auchan hypermarket in Calais- lovely steak with the blood oozing, excellent sauces,and a couple of pints as well, 40 euros for a family of four!!I would recommend it to anyone, we always go there on the way home from hols or just on a booze cruise.
We were in the Jura area this year, Franche-Comte, and my eldest girl doing French at school wanted to go to a "proper" French restaurant. I had my doubts about what she would find, but we went into one on top of the Ballons d'Alsace, and, of course, the Rabbit Pate starter, apparently a local delicacy, set the tone!!
"I'm not eating that!!!!" This was followed by a most excellent steak in shallotte sauce, but because it had cheval in its title convinced them they were eating horse, it just went from bad to worse.....the upshot was that I ended up eating nearly four dinners as it was so tasty, and I don't like waste!!
This was a pretty posh restaurant, but it still only came to about £40 English.
I think you were done.....and this is a long way from 405 v Xantia....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Lol. Not quite. It was in a bar in a place called Rocamadour in the Pyrenees. Nice place but a bit touristy and bloody hot as there was no shade (40 degrees). Having said that, even the local town of La Souterraine near my folks charge 2 euros for 1/2 a pint of French beer which works out at nearly £3 for a pint of non-imported beer. It may just be me as I'm used to visiting countries which charge a lot less for local brew.
As for the meal, it was a local truck stop that doubled as a restaurant in the evenings (a relais I believe they're called). Anyway, the meal was a set menu costing 20 euros each for a 3 course meal of tiny portions. Don't get me wrong, the food was lovely, there just needed to be more of it! Sorry for being a stick in the mud/ Alf Garnet type, but a slap up dinner costs £20 for the pair of us at the 3 Horseshpes pub down the road in Rothwell. Excellent food too. Anyway, I think thats just the way it's going over there now with inflation etc. My dad's a registered sparkie over there now and the amount of money the government keep asking for (whether you have it or not) within the first 3 years of business is crazy.
Like a compulsory tax, but not based on anything....almost like a fee for the priviledge of working for yourself.

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 04 Jul 2005, 06:06

I think if you try a good Xantia VSX you will find it has extremelly little bodyroll but rides every bit as well as the LX you have ...
I'm quite surprised you think the Xantia has lots of bodyroll. My '96 VSX has hardly any ... Much less than the BX and CX's I have.
You don't have an anti-roll bar bolt sheered off one of the rear arms or something preventing the anti-roll bars working have you ??
seeya,
Shane L.

Chrispy · Post by **Chrispy** » 06 Jul 2005, 20:29

But isn't the VSX a hydractive jobby? I only have 6 spheres on mine and compared to the E36 BMW I've just come from, it's like going round corners in a shopping trolley. Far too squidgy and soft.
I know I need new drop links at the front as mine are clunking like hell over rough surfaces but otherwise I think everythings fine as far as I know. [?]