Vibrating steering

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nigel c
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Vibrating steering

Post by nigel c »

Got a Xantia 1.9 TD and the steering vibrates especially when turning right. Theres no vibration on the foot pedal (as I've read here is a comon problem). I've been told that it could be the upper bearings are dry has any one got any other clues.
The car is a 1997 estate.
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Post by oilyspanner »

Had a progressive wobble on the front cured by replacing a driveshaft, worse when turning. and accelerating but lift off the throttle and it disappeared?
Stewart
nigel c
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Post by nigel c »

This is OK when being driven straight
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Post by nigel c »

The accumulator sphere is ticking every 15 secs and so needs replacing could this cause the trouble.
Also the front suspension seems a little bouncy is this part of the accum sphere problem
406 V6
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Post by 406 V6 »

Bouncy or hard ends of the car mean flat spheres
Car standing still, engine at idle, normal driving height position.
Push each corner down, should move some 5 inches or so. if it's hard, shot spheres, regass or change them (a few searches on the forum will reveal the "secrets" of changing spheres[:P])
As for the vibration/wobble, i'm with Olyspanner, driveshaft.
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Post by nigel c »

but theres no vibration when traveling straight and I forgot to say the steering vibrates when turning it when the car isn't moving
406 V6
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Post by 406 V6 »

Ah!
You fell it at the steering wheel, even stopped. Hmmm, that's another thing!
First, change/recharge the acc. sphere.
I would also do some system cleaning with hydraclean. Could be some dirt causing all this. Or a weak pump(?).
Fellas?! Help out! I don't know if i'm saying something wrong.
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Post by nigel c »

Thanks for that, the acc sphere is definatly shot due to the ticking. Can anyone confirm the dirty oil theory?
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Post by nigel c »

Has anyone got any ideas?
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Post by RichardW »

Nigel,
How do you mean vibrates? Does it turn in stages, does it vibrate all the time or just when the amount of lock is being changed, is it any different when not moving to when moving? If it only does it when you are moving the wheel then it's a problem with the pinion valve, ram, rack, or pump. If it does it all the time them it's a problem with drvieshaft, wheelbearing, track rod end etc. Dirty LHM might have partially blocked the pinion valve on the rack, which can make the assistance erratic. I'd start by changing the LHM for hydraflush for a couple of 000 miles, and see what happens. Give us a bit more info on the symptoms.
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Post by Mandrake »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by 406 V6</i>

Ah!
You fell it at the steering wheel, even stopped. Hmmm, that's another thing!
First, change/recharge the acc. sphere.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
While I'm all for replacing a faulty accumulator sphere (the myarid of different symptoms it can cause is staggering) would it have any effect on the steering ? On a 1997 model it should have the two output 6+2 pump, so the steering is not using the pressure supplied from the accumulator...
Perhaps the pump intake pipe is sucking in a bit of air ?
By the way, (sorry to hijack the thread slightly) does anyone know why they switched to the two output pump system at the expense of having very little pumping capacity for the main system ? (Compared to a CX for example)
I'm guessing the reasons were (a) steering instantly light as soon as the engine is started, (b) steering still works normally in case of a dud accumulator sphere, and (c) getting away with not needing a seperate brake accumulator (as in the CX) due to steering not using the accumulator supply. Any ideas ?
Regards,
Simon
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Post by Kowalski »

The old (BX and Xantia) systems had a flow dividier which does exactly what its name suggests, it divided the flow of the LHM coming out of the pump so there wasn't really more fluid available to the suspension and brakes with a single output pump. The ratio that flow is split on is fixed.
The newer pumps did away with the need for a separate flow divider which reduced the cost and made the systems a bit more independant. In reality its a cheapness 'upgrade' and nothing more.
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Post by jeremy »

I can't imagine that removal of the flow divider harms the functioning of the system at all, and in fact should improve the reliability considerably as if it ain;t got one it can't drop off.
I don't think ayone will defend the FDV as a reliable or desireable component.
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Post by nigel c »

I've swapped the accumulaor sphere with one form my scrap Xant and the ticking has slowed down but the vibration continues.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How do you mean vibrates? Does it turn in stages, does it vibrate all the time or just when the amount of lock is being changed, is it any different when not moving to when moving?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The symptoms are: with the car still, or moving slowly, i.e. turing right or left after being stationary, when I turn the steering wheel the steering wheel vibrates and is notchy as I turn it (I am sure that I'm feeling the actions of the pump). The vibration occurs from lock to lock. If I increase the engine speed the frequency of the vibrations increase. There is also a vibrating noise inside the car and you can feel and hear extra vibrations on the pump when the steering is turned.
Yesterday I put the front end on axle stands and there was no vibration and the steering was very smooth - I put this down to the fact that there is no load on the steering system beacuse the tyres were off the ground.
The can has just passed the MOT and so there should be no wear in any of the joints.
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Post by jeremy »

Your 98 Xantia will have the 2 outlet pump, with 6 cylinders feeding the PAS and 2 feeding the suspension. there is no flow divider and the system can really be regarded as 2 systems. the accumulator is in the suspension/brake circuit and does not affect the steering at all.
If the vibration you complain of is in fact pulses felt through the steering wheel when the wheel is turned then it is nothing to do with the steering joints but simply a pump/rack issue.
Easy bit first - look in the reservoir - is there any air bubbling through when the engine runs? Any when the wheel is turned? there should not be and if there is then its probably getting in through the hose from the reservoir. Anders suggestion is that for diagnostic purposes you replace this hose with a length of clean garden hose and see if it makes any difference.
Is the belt tight?
Otherwise its a pump problem - it might respond to flushing with the special flushing product sold for the purpose - but otherwise its replacement.
jeremy
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