newbie Questions for Xantia

mrogers · Unread post by **mrogers** » 01 Jun 2005, 16:26

Hi all. Just been pointed in the direction of this forum, been looking for a Citroen forum for ages.
I own a 1995 Xantia VSX 1.9 TD. recently changed the oil and filters, but she has developed poor starting and white smoke (bucket loads of it). I been using the search and i think it must need new glow plugs so thanks thats one problem sorted LOL

The other issues i have (not that important really) are:
Car decided to lock itself or the central locking goes into head fot mode, any idea's?
Sometime at traffic lights the rear suspension drops and the re levels, is this normal?
My car has heated seats but they dont work, is this a simple fix?
I really think these cars are great, my wife who drives it more than me, says she will only buy another one when this one dies (and this comming from a woman who before i bought the car said, a: dont get a citroen and B: dont get a diesel)
Thanks in advance Marcus

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 01 Jun 2005, 17:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mrogers
Sometime at traffic lights the rear suspension drops and the re levels, is this normal?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Depending on what you're doing with the brake pedal, yes, this can be normal.
What happens is that the rear of the car has trailing arms, which means that the wheelbase length changes with the suspension arm position, which means if you put the brakes on while you're stationary, the rear suspension can't move up and down freely.
If you brake relatively hard and then dont ease off as you pull to a stop, when you stop the suspension can be held at higher than normal height at the back. After about 5 seconds the height corrector will decide that the back of the car is too high and start letting pressure out.
Depending on how hard you have the brakes pressed the brakes will support the weight of the car until quite a lot of pressure is released, and then suddenly give way - or you might let some pressure off the brake pedal a bit, either way the effect is a sudden drop in height as the suspension is free to move again.
After a few seconds the height will come up to normal again, assuming you don't have the brakes on too hard. If you do, the same thing will happen in reverse - pressure will build up until suddenly it jumps upwards.
It can be a quite amusing thing to do on purpose at the lights sometimes, you'll certainly get funny looks from the car behind you [:D] If you hold the brakes on fairly hard you can get it to jump from almost right down to right up...and vica versa.
If you're trying to avoid it, try easing off on the brake just as you come to rest to let the rear height normalize, especially if you've just been braking hard causing a bit of nose dive.
It can be a little bit awkward with an Automatic, as it will try to sneak forward, but easy with a manual. I've only really noticed it as a "problem" on Automatic's... with manual cars in general I always ease off the brakes as I come to a stop to give the smoothest stop, in which case it doesn't happen, but I find it difficult to do that with an Automatic without overshooting the mark or doing a little bit of forward creeping, so its not unusual to get a little bit of height fidgeting at the back with an Automatic just because it forces you to apply the brakes harder as you come to a stop.
Since nearly all Citroen's have trailing arms at the rear, any Hydraulic suspension Citroen will exhibit this behaviour, so most Citroen owners are aware of it, and know to ease off on the brakes as you pull to a final stop...
Regards,
Simon

activamike · Unread post by **activamike** » 01 Jun 2005, 18:27

just searching for info found this forum.
i have just bought a 1998 xantia activa 2.0 and i have a few niggles,
the wipers only work on low speed, looking around the fuse box i cant find the blue relay or an empty socket but i have got two black relays that seem to control the wipers (ie the wipers stop if i pull one or the other out).
and
the car leans to the passenger side when parked.
should have noticed this before i bought it but i saw "activa" and thought i had to have it, other than that im very impressed with the car and how it drives. any ideas would be much appreciated

mrogers · Unread post by **mrogers** » 01 Jun 2005, 18:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mandrake

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mrogers
Sometime at traffic lights the rear suspension drops and the re levels, is this normal?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Depending on what you're doing with the brake pedal, yes, this can be normal.
What happens is that the rear of the car has trailing arms, which means that the wheelbase length changes with the suspension arm position, which means if you put the brakes on while you're stationary, the rear suspension can't move up and down freely.
If you brake relatively hard and then dont ease off as you pull to a stop, when you stop the suspension can be held at higher than normal height at the back. After about 5 seconds the height corrector will decide that the back of the car is too high and start letting pressure out.
Depending on how hard you have the brakes pressed the brakes will support the weight of the car until quite a lot of pressure is released, and then suddenly give way - or you might let some pressure off the brake pedal a bit, either way the effect is a sudden drop in height as the suspension is free to move again.
After a few seconds the height will come up to normal again, assuming you don't have the brakes on too hard. If you do, the same thing will happen in reverse - pressure will build up until suddenly it jumps upwards.
It can be a quite amusing thing to do on purpose at the lights sometimes, you'll certainly get funny looks from the car behind you [:D] If you hold the brakes on fairly hard you can get it to jump from almost right down to right up...and vica versa.
If you're trying to avoid it, try easing off on the brake just as you come to rest to let the rear height normalize, especially if you've just been braking hard causing a bit of nose dive.
It can be a little bit awkward with an Automatic, as it will try to sneak forward, but easy with a manual. I've only really noticed it as a "problem" on Automatic's... with manual cars in general I always ease off the brakes as I come to a stop to give the smoothest stop, in which case it doesn't happen, but I find it difficult to do that with an Automatic without overshooting the mark or doing a little bit of forward creeping, so its not unusual to get a little bit of height fidgeting at the back with an Automatic just because it forces you to apply the brakes harder as you come to a stop.
Since nearly all Citroen's have trailing arms at the rear, any Hydraulic suspension Citroen will exhibit this behaviour, so most Citroen owners are aware of it, and know to ease off on the brakes as you pull to a final stop...
Regards,
Simon
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Its normal then as i tend to have a heavy foot in the xantia as my 300zx brakes are so powerfull, when i change into the citroen i forget there not as good and usually brake abit late.

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 01 Jun 2005, 18:37

White smoke at starting can be a few things. It could be a glowplug or two off, it the car is rough for a couple (10) seconds or so and gentle accelaration makes it smooth and stops the smoke, thats fairly typical of a glowplug off. It could mean you have an air leak on the fuel system somewhere (injector leak off pipes are the usual suspect), if before you try starting the car after it has stood, you pump the fuel bulb and it starts smoke free, then thats fairly diagnostic of an air leak. Oil leaking past your turbo seals or valve seals on the exhaust side can cause white smoke, although I'd expect the car to use oil if this were the case. Alternatively, and this is the possibility you don't really want, the head gasket can leak and your coolant can get into the engine and come out of the exhaust as steam. If that were the case your coolant level would be falling. Is that enough for you to think about?
Hold the car on the handbrake not the footbrake and the sinking at traffic lights thing just isn't a problem at all.

mrogers · Unread post by **mrogers** » 01 Jun 2005, 19:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kowalski

White smoke at starting can be a few things. It could be a glowplug or two off, it the car is rough for a couple (10) seconds or so and gentle accelaration makes it smooth and stops the smoke, thats fairly typical of a glowplug off. It could mean you have an air leak on the fuel system somewhere (injector leak off pipes are the usual suspect), if before you try starting the car after it has stood, you pump the fuel bulb and it starts smoke free, then thats fairly diagnostic of an air leak. Oil leaking past your turbo seals or valve seals on the exhaust side can cause white smoke, although I'd expect the car to use oil if this were the case. Alternatively, and this is the possibility you don't really want, the head gasket can leak and your coolant can get into the engine and come out of the exhaust as steam. If that were the case your coolant level would be falling. Is that enough for you to think about?
Hold the car on the handbrake not the footbrake and the sinking at traffic lights thing just isn't a problem at all.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Cheers mate, Its deffo oil smoke as its heavy and grey, its just like the car is clearing itself out for a few secs, takes a few turns of the key to get her started from cold, seems fine once warmed up. The engine was rebuilt 2 years ago (a month after we bought it) due to head gasket failure, diesel leaks, oil leak and a few other probs, so im confident it isnt the head gasket.
Gonns check starting after the fuel primmer thing and if that does not fix it ill just get some more glow plugs.
Thanks for the help

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 01 Jun 2005, 19:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mrogers
Its normal then as i tend to have a heavy foot in the xantia as my 300zx brakes are so powerfull, when i change into the citroen i forget there not as good and usually brake abit late.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
See: http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... C_ID=11689
Regards,
Simon

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 01 Jun 2005, 19:40

The car should start after no more than a couple of turns of the engine immediately after the glow plug light has gone out - ie virtually instantly and run smoothly - ie with no misfiring at all.
An oil leak from the turbo would not show up on startup and is noticeable by blue (quite distinctive) smoke as would oil leaking down the valve stems (which doesn't seem to be a problem on these engines)
I'm surprised about your comment on the brakes - I would have described my BX brakes as the best I've ever used (little effort, accurate application, and immensly fast response due to being fully powered and not another soggy vacuum servo) and that includes things like XJ6's, and I certainly wouldn't count rotten systems like Range Rovers as more than marginally safe) I wonder if you should have a look at the threads on Xantia brakes and the spring under the pedal?
Central locking - I'm not quite sure what is happening? Does the thing bounce back when you try and lock it? - Door lock switch is probably the problem if this happens.
jeremy

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 02 Jun 2005, 03:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mrogers
Its normal then as i tend to have a heavy foot in the xantia as my 300zx brakes are so powerfull, when i change into the citroen i forget there not as good and usually brake abit late.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
A couple of other suggestions if your brakes dont seem up to scratch (apart from the spring mod I already mentioned, which I highly recommend) is check that the front accumulator sphere is ok, if its dead it will significantly worsen the action of the front brakes, especially if you have ABS.
Fairly easy to test - idle the engine and let the car lift up to normal ride height. Sit on the boot and verify that the car lifts you back to the normal height, hop off, verify that it goes back to the normal height, then switch off the engine, and immediately repeat the sitting on the boot test.
If the accumulator sphere is ok the back suspension should be able to lift you once without the engine running. If it doesn't even try, replace the accumulator.
The other thing to check, is thoroughly bleed the back brakes, which due to the long pipe run from the back suspension, up to the brake valve, and back again to the back brakes, can be a bit prone to getting air in the brake lines, particularly after rear suspension spheres are replaced, or just over time as nitrogen slowly bubbles out of the suspension spheres...
Citroen's high pressure brakes depending on the model normally range from excellent to outstanding, so if they're significantly worse than your 300zx I'd be suspecting one of the above problems...
(And of course there are all the normal things to check too, like pad surfaces, caliper lubrication etc)
Regards,
Simon

mrogers · Unread post by **mrogers** » 21 Jun 2005, 22:20

Hi im back, right after the excellent advice on the starting problem, it seems that is a leak somewhere as it now near impossible to start without sqeezing the fuel primer bulb thingy.
So what next, im not sure which pipes i need to check etc.
Cheers Marcus