Ripped - off by dealer in Holland!

harryb.48 · Unread post by **harryb.48** » 21 May 2005, 18:29

Hi All
I am now in The Netherlands visiting my sons - one of them has just bought a car (Peugeot 306) from a dealer and the clutch thrust bearing has broken up after just 2 weeks and was making a noise since it was purchased - so it was likely that it was faulty when he bought it,but he only noticed the noise after driving away.
Now on his receipt it says he has one month`s guarantee on the engine only "and not on the belts". When he `phoned the garage,which is some distance away,the owner just said "sorry ,the clutch is not covered by the guarantee,but i will give you a good price for fixing it and will change the clutch completely at the same time"
My son is quite unhappy about the situation and is looking into his rights(if any!)and options , so far without anything positive from local garages - they all say the seller is within his rights to stipulate what is covered by the guarantee,but we haven`t as yet discussed the fact that the car was faulty when bought.
Does anyone out there know what statutory rights he may have as a buyer,or could point us in the right direction?
Any help or information will be much appreciated.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 21 May 2005, 19:54

dont know what the law is in that part of world, but it must deppend on price you payed,sounds very naughty to me regards malcolm

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 May 2005, 02:21

Well, a clutch is not a belt and it could be argued that a clutch is part of the engine moreso than say, the gearbox as it is firmly attached to the engine. As we are all happy members of one big European family, I would have thought that Dutch consumer rights were about the same as ours. Is there not something in UK law that goods must be of "Merchantable Quality" and that they must stay that way for a period of time which I'm pretty sure is in excess of two weeks. If the clutch failed after only two weeks it can be argued that the fault was pre-existing at the time of purchase and therefore the product was not of merchantable quality. I believe this is a sort of "catch-all" clause to defeat those who say only certain bits are actually covered.
I wish you good luck on this. I would be temped to argue the toss and become a right pain in the backside to the dealer until he did the right thing. Has worked for me in the past. Lets us know how it goes...

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 22 May 2005, 03:33

yes but there is one set of laws for UK and a completly diferant set for the rest of EU,i think its because brit politctions are cheap skat when it comes to paying there dues regards malcolm

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 22 May 2005, 04:16

Harry - I'm sure this board has some Dutch contributors - you might get the response you want if you change the heading to something more relevant which would attract their attention.
jeremy

harryb.48 · Unread post by **harryb.48** » 22 May 2005, 18:30

Thanks for help and suggestions so far.Still working on problem ,but it is weekend when not much can be done - also if my son wanted to take the car back ,how does he drive a clutchless car 100 miles or so??
Jeremy,as you can see I have followed your suggestion and changed the heading.
Regards

freek · Unread post by **freek** » 23 May 2005, 02:19

Hi,
I did some research on the internet, and I can tell that you are protected by (dutch) law when you buy a car at a garage. One is that the car has to be free from defects unless the dealer told you that there is one. On the other hand, the dealer is not responsible for faults (for example poor maintenance) which are found at a test by a car inspection centre, unless you made an agreement about this.
So in the situation of your son who bought a car with a obvious defect he can demand that the purchase is reversed. For more information you can contact the dutch automobile club, ANWB, in The Hague.
Regards,
Freek

harryb.48 · Unread post by **harryb.48** » 23 May 2005, 14:29

Thanks for that information Freek , I will pass it on to my son this morning.
I can see that the dealer will argue the point that it didn`t happen straight away ,but then there was an unidentifiable noise all that time which turned out to be the thrust bearing,so perhaps we have a case. I`m pretty sure that by specifying that only the engine was guaranteed the dealer already knew ,or suspected that the clutch was faulty.
We will inform you of the outcome.
Thanks again

harryb.48 · Unread post by **harryb.48** » 24 May 2005, 21:16

The outcome is that the dealer offered to replace the complete clutch assembly for a reduced price(E 250)if we delivered the car,so we shopped around and will now pay E 380 at a local independant garage and will avoid the hassle of taking the car across the country-the total cost would have probably exceeded E380 anyway.
As far as my son`s rights go - he "didn`t have a leg to stand on" according to the dutch consumer rights bureau ,because the dealer was not accredited ,or something like that(I didn`t fully understand this bit),and so another lesson is learned - buy closer to home and make sure of the guarantee limitations before driving away...

Niek · Unread post by **Niek** » 24 May 2005, 23:42

Hi,
Sorry to hear about all that mess...
We have something called 'BOVAG' in Holland, this is an association that guarantees a certain quality at all dealers linked to them (or accredited I suppose). If something like what happened to your son were to happen when bought at a bovag-dealer, it would be alot easier to get the whole thing fixed/restituted.
That being said, it is no more than logic that cars bought there are usually a little more expensive... (Buy private and you'll only have yourself to blame...)

tudor · Unread post by **tudor** » 25 May 2005, 03:50

Well If you or your son is a member of greenflag,rac, ect, ect. You would be entitled to some
legal assistance...?
XM 2.1TD

harryb.48 · Unread post by **harryb.48** » 25 May 2005, 15:41

Thanks for all recent replies.
Niek,you are right ,the garage was just classed as a `Handelsondernemer` and was not a Bovag dealer which was probably why he was somewhat cheaper - almost like buying private.
We have now looked at all avenues for legal advice and it seems that it`s a case of `let the buyer beware`- unless you buy from a Bovag dealer.

harryb.48 · Unread post by **harryb.48** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:31

Postscript :
The dealer who sold the car is now less of a villain of the piece - he offered to pay E 150 towards the repair ,so we had it done locally.
The saga continues on a sour note however,as we drove 200 - odd miles into a holiday in France only to find the gears getting more difficult to change and a lot of noise and an oily smell from the gearbox .Only when we stopped at a roadside garage did we find that there was NO OIL in the gearbox!(also discovered it`s called la vitesse in French)
The garage in Holland at first denied forgetting to put oil in it then
changed there mind and admitted a mistake may have been made.Now they are offering a free repair(quite rightly!)and my son will accept only a replacement gearbox as the internal damage will be inestimable,although it still works with some whining and gear crunching in the lower gears.
It`s been an experience we`d all rather forget.
I know it`s not strictly Citroen ,but a sister Marque with a lot of common parts so I have been grateful for the response on this forum
which never fails to help us poor mugs out there.[B)]

Niek · Unread post by **Niek** » 09 Jun 2005, 01:57

Not much luck with that car. There should be plenty of replacement gearboxes around. If they refuse you could maybe suggest to find one yourself as long as they put it in and pay for it?

harryb.48 · Unread post by **harryb.48** » 09 Jun 2005, 17:49

PPS.
Thanks Niek,
The garage (bovag dealer) is honouring their guarantee by replacing the gearbox (probably from another car)and they also paid the 41 euros for the cost of oil and inspection which we paid in France,thereby admitting their basic mistake of not filling the gearbox after clutch replacement.
It`s probably the same the world over - you have to persevere with THEM (Garages)in maintaining your rights otherwise THEY will walk all over you!
Regards