water pump?

mrbump · Post by **mrbump** » 07 May 2005, 01:34

Hi,
A mates zxtd 1993 has just started pressurising the water and overheating a bit. the light on the guage comes on and temp goes to around 100 before we knock it off. never had the stop light but have had both fans on.
the rad was knackered and blocked, and only got warm accross 1/3 of it so that and the thermo got changed first, - same probs.
Before we take the head off, is it worth considering the water pump? it was hard to flush through the block when we were doing that which made me think at first it was just full of crud, but could it be a seized pump? there is no noise coming from it.
anyone found a water pump to cause these mild symptoms or have they all been catastrophic (or at least bloddy noisey first)?
Cheers[:)]
Greg

Post by **Peter.N.** » 07 May 2005, 03:04

If you are getting any ammount of pressure in the cooling system its either the head gasket leaking or a cracked head, although it shouldn't be the latter unless its been allowed to boil. The only problem that the water pump usually gives is water leakage. The pump is driven by the cam belt so if it siezed you would know about it!

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 07 May 2005, 03:56

if your pump was seized you would strip cam belt and have bent valves,when flushing block did you still have thermostat in place this would be why it seemed blocked,try bleeding system properlty,you could first try this when engine stone cold remove cap and crank engine over if coolant gushes out it has defanetlygo either head gasket gone or cracked head,if this show no prob whilst still completly cold, with cap off,heater contrl full on hot remove plug from top battery end of rad,pour water in untill it comes out of plug hole and stops sinking,replace plug,run engine for 5/10 mins replace cap,cotinue to run engine till fans cut in when they cut back out gingerly remove cap,if you get more than a small hiss you have certanly got head gasket gone or -cracked head,if coolant is calmtop up to bottom of neck put cap back on repeat last proseager reagards malcolm

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 07 May 2005, 04:54

There is a remote chance that the thermostat itself has failed.
- but just because I've seen it myself on a Renault1.7 (Volvo340) engine - it dont need to be the case. This thermostat had split in the bridge that holds the wax cylinder - leaving the thermostat closed for good.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 07 May 2005, 05:15

I bet the mileage on that TD engine is somewhere between about 115k and 150k. This seems to be the average lifetime for the factory fitted head gasket, and there's not a lot you can do about making the life any longer, as the gasket fails due to differential expansion between the block and the head. If the problem has been getting progressively worse over the last few hundred miles, then it's almost without doubt the Head Gasket. Sorry!

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 07 May 2005, 05:38

I agree with Malcolm, the water pump impellor doesnt touch anything except water, its seals and bearings may fail, you will know because in extremis you will leak water via the seal or the cambelt will fall off !, from Anders, the thermostat can fail in the closed position, not intended but we have sen it, but the cold engine blowing many bubbles is surefire diagnosis of the failing head gasket, as long as you dont boil the motor then its certainly saveable, but please dont drive it dry.
Stewart

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 07 May 2005, 18:32

with engine cold you can not flush block through with thermostat still in place,you have got nothing to loose by trying what i sudggested in earlyer reply regards malcolm

Simon Canfer · Post by **Simon Canfer** » 07 May 2005, 22:07

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fastandfurryous</i>

I bet the mileage on that TD engine is somewhere between about 115k and 150k. This seems to be the average lifetime for the factory fitted head gasket, and there's not a lot you can do about making the life any longer, as the gasket fails due to differential expansion between the block and the head. If the problem has been getting progressively worse over the last few hundred miles, then it's almost without doubt the Head Gasket. Sorry!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
That's an interesting idea, my head gasket certainly went between those mileages. My money is on corrosion+age though, and there are certainly cars out there with very high mileages and original gaskets. I expect if you change coolant every 2 years, and bleed properly, and keep an eye on radiator condition, you'd avoid head gasket failures.
Simon

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 07 May 2005, 23:08

it is usuly rad fans not cuting in or water leaks that cause head probs regards malcolm

SSidhu · Post by **SSidhu** » 09 May 2005, 01:01

You should use the new type of head gasket which is a stainless
steel type with blue silicone beads around the edges of water
passages this type really last...

mrbump · Post by **mrbump** » 09 May 2005, 19:19

Guys,
Thanks for the answers[:D]. My question really was:
Q. Anyone had a water pump fail, what were the symptoms?
Begginer I am not.
Thermo was obviously removed prior to flushing.
Yes i know when gaskets go, ive had 4.
Never had a water pump fail on me, the question is HAVE YOU, what were the symptoms? It obviously doesnt happen very often on these cars.
This car looks like hg all the way, but my friend doenst want to beleive it and is going in this order (thermo, rad, wp (if a consideration, hence the question) and then hg.
And malcom, you can flush the engine with thermo in place, just not the rad and engine together.[}:)]
Cheers

rashmore · Post by **rashmore** » 09 May 2005, 20:15

Well a dodgy thermostat can give symptoms similar to failing hg. had that on mine. I was all set to have the hg work done when friend bro suggested it (he's a mechanic, and says that other dodgy mechanics will say its hg knowing full well its the thermo - nice £300+ for 5 minutes work.....) mine seems to be fine now, but will be changing radiator anyway as not look too good. i had mine tested to see if exhaust gases were coming thro the head, as no oil/water contamination. this is a simple chemical test completed with the engine running, they suck air from the radiator exp chamber into the test vessel - it will change from blue to yellow if there are any exhaust gases leaking via the head. cost no more than £5 ! mine stayed blue so hg is fine.
if the water pump is not working surely you will be able to see that it is not pumping coolant into the rad - mine has a tube at the op out of which comes the coolant.......

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 09 May 2005, 22:40

I have had a water pump fail on a 1.9D engine before. As they have drain holes between the water seal and the bearing, all that happens is that they start to leak. The bearing hardly ever fails, even with a completely failed water seal.

mrbump · Post by **mrbump** » 10 May 2005, 01:35

Cheers furry,
Thats what I am after. Just have to convince the poor bugger its time to learn the age old french "diesel head change at 130000 miles" dance![:p]

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 10 May 2005, 01:56

what is point asking question when you know all the answers,if thermostat is in place and cold you can not flush block properly,because when cold stat will be closed regards malcolm