Sluggish, no power especially inclines!

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 22 Apr 2005, 17:18

Hi,
Trouble with my Renault Clio 1.4 RT 1993 petrol.
I know this is the wrong forum, but the proper one seems deserted and anyway, I'd imagine this to be generic amongst most cars that use the same sort of system - single injector in throttle body, MAP sensor, Lambda sensor, ECU controlling it all, etc...
The car is sluggish - lacks power, most noticeably when the road inclines upwards, or whenever the car is under load conditions. Friend's 1.2 is nippier and can outperform my one.
On the motorway, if the road begins to go uphill slightly, my speed will not increase, so I can be stuck at 50mph and unable to accelerate. Bad if I've pulled out to overtake just before it begins to run uphill as I get flashes of headlights, beeps, and so on. I can be going faster and find that as the road slopes up, the car goes slower and slower till I've gone down the gears and am sluggishly climbing to the top.
I disconnected the wiring to the lambda sensor and took it for a spin but there was no extra power there. Simple stuff like air filter, spark plugs, etc., all changed of course. Visual check of cat structure shows all honeycomb chambers to be clean and free of obstruction. No obvious air leaks anywhere, and removing the tube from the MAP sensor causes the car idle to change dramatically. I tested the amount of fuel flowing from the petrol pump and it was within specifications. Fuel filter also changed. Haven't taken the throttle housing apart to inspect the nozzle as the injector needs a new washer upon refitting says Haynes and I can't get one of those.
Before I spend more money changing everything I can find, any ideas what it could be from the description?
Oh, and there's sometimes a slight bit of hesitation when accelerating. Otherwise it purrs. And one cylinder showed higher pressure than the other 3 when doing a compression test at home with my little gauge. The other 3 all read the same as each other. Can't remember how much higher, but wasn't into red on gauge or anything like that, still in green I think.
Thanks everyone [:)][:)]

arry_b · Unread post by **arry_b** » 22 Apr 2005, 18:21

Is the throttle opening fully? Too much slack in the cable so the butterfly won't open fully?

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 22 Apr 2005, 19:28

Does the Clio return bad mileage too ?
- then it could be the air filter.

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 22 Apr 2005, 19:49

The throttle butterfly is opening fully, no slack there.
The mileage isn't too bad I suppose, but I expected better for a cat car with only a 1.4 engine. As stated in my previous post, I have changed the air filter but no difference whatsoever.

lighteninguk · Unread post by **lighteninguk** » 22 Apr 2005, 21:30

have you looked into getting your ecu read (you can buy realy cheap and basic readers, and being your model being quite simple (like my zx 1.4 monopoint) you will get some basic error codes out of it, although the error codes are very basic you can get some idea, although these codes arnt generally the end of it as not all errors are recorded.
another suggestion would be to check the throttle potentiomiter, my car is the same age as yours and cleaning up that realy did help a bundle to idling and to, but not that much, the responce of the engine. saying that i only cleaned it up because i got some jumpy readins when used i checked it with a voltmeter
any idea what engine you have in it, eg engine code, like XUD, or like mine which is an TU3.

bernie · Unread post by **bernie** » 22 Apr 2005, 21:54

That'll be the Citroen Clio then[:0][:0][:0][:o)][:0][:0]

Richard Gallagher · Unread post by **Richard Gallagher** » 23 Apr 2005, 02:33

A problem that Clios are prone to is getting a build up of swarf on the crankshaft sensor, which causes confusion for the ecu. Remove it and clean it up.

Mosser · Unread post by **Mosser** » 23 Apr 2005, 05:05

What you have described is pretty much identical to my problem with my r reg xantia 1.8i 16v, sluggish uphills, 1 cylinder down on pressure on a test, lacks power when overtaking and hesitates sometimes,
I take the map sensor off every now and then and put it upside down on my radiator overnight to let the oil drain out of it and it is a little better for a few days, but i'm not sure its that sensor causing the problem,
IF you find the solution can you let me know?,or post here as i would love to get my car sorted

Mosser · Unread post by **Mosser** » 23 Apr 2005, 05:19

Forgot to add that once mine has warmed up, i can hear it misfiring from the exhaust too, doesnt do it whilst cold though

dan.2cv · Unread post by **dan.2cv** » 23 Apr 2005, 15:56

Haynes usually specify parameters which all compressions must be within. If your high presure is in excess of what is specified then I reckon that could be the cause of your problem. It could even be that you have a normal pressure in 1 and low in 3?
Test your compressions again, make a note of the results, then consult the manual. It should also give you an indication of what could be at fault if you read the paragraph on compression testing.

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 23 Apr 2005, 16:17

Hi, not too sure of the engine code and can't look till I'm back in Spain again. Unfortunately cleaning the crankshaft sensor made no difference. It wasn't terribly dirty but I cleaned it up a while back after someone suggested it.
If I find the solution, of course I will post it here, it's the least I can do considering the help I receive. I had a 1.8 16V Xantia, went surprisingly well, lots of torque. Should the MAP sensor be filling with oil? It's supposed to have a vaccuum condition inside itself and the pipe... One thing that helped lumpiness with my Xantia was to completely overhaul the throttle housing, not replacing parts but simply cleaning it thoroughly. Excess oil in the engine had caused pipe connections in the housing to become clogged with cooked oil, and the mess was all around the throttle bypass valve hole in the housing too, and the cone-shaped end of the idle speed stepper motor valve. At the same time, I sprayed some thinnish oil deep into the idle speed stepper motor as it was sticking from time to time. I've opening the motors completely and now know that some warnings given with them are unnecessary, so feel free to fill the motor (from the valve end, pull up the rubber grommet) with alcohol a few times to really rinse it out, and then let it air dry for a while, finishing off with some oil in there. Doing this made the car smooth and more powerful, completely eliminating hesitation and jerkiness. May help with your problem while I find out what the Clio's trouble is.
As for the MAP sensor, I don't think oil should be present in it and building up there over time myself, and wouldn't imagine that helps it function correctly. From what I can discover, the sensor has a little filter in it and uses the varying resistance under varying pressure of a silicon wafer to determine vaccuum pressure. The little filter would become partially clogged by oil, wouldn't it?

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 26 Apr 2005, 02:24

*bumpity bump*