406 20hdi vibrating clutch pedal

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chrismillie
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406 20hdi vibrating clutch pedal

Post by chrismillie »

hi my mate has just bought a 51 plate 406 20hdi 90 with 85thou on the clock the thing is mint full service history but the clutch pedal has a weird VIBRATING OR PULSING wich you can feel right up ya leg. has anyone come across this before? if so what is itand what is the fix. thanks chris............[?]
PowerLee
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Post by PowerLee »

Hi
This sounds like the dual mass flywheel about to let go, Get it checked out & quickly!
chrismillie
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Post by chrismillie »

hi lee is there any other clues that it is the mass flywheel and have you come across this before? and how much would you expect to pay for this job thanks chris...
PowerLee
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Post by PowerLee »

Hi
Ive heard about failures of the dual mass flywheel unit before on the HDI engines.
How does the clutch & general drivetrain of the car feel out on the road?
Any ideas if it has had a new clutch fitted to it before?
Any engine movement from the bottom mounting? Have a look at the mounting at the back of engine, the right hand driveshaft passes through this & its right in the aera of the drivers footwell, The mounts do wear out & allow the engine to move about a bit.
Ill have to ask my mate whos a Peugeot technician over the weekend about this & get back to you.
A HDI dual mass flywheel failure is fairly rare, but it does happen from time to time.
He also mentioned the dual mass flywheels are expensive to replace.
The HDI is a very fine engine, Easy to chip & boost the power output but has a couple of safety points to take on board.
Never ever steam clean / pressure wash a HDI engine, you will kill the electrics.
Never ever unplug an injector with the engine running, Conrod through the block & a wrecked engine if you do!
The fuel presure in the fuel pipes in the engine bay can reach at maximum presure 1350 Bar, Thats 19 580 PSI, Just over 19 & a half thousand pounds per square inch! The average car tyre runs around 33 PSI, Please dont play about with a HDI unless you know what your doing.
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Post by chrismillie »

HI LEE THE CAR DRIVES PERFECT GEARS CLUTCH EXCLLENT NO ROCKING FROM ENGINE JUST THIS PULSE IN THE PEDAL[?]THANKS CHRIS...
rossd
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Post by rossd »

Another pointer to the flywheel is if you hear a samll squeak from the bellhousing area as you stop the engine.
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Post by turbolag »

It could be the DMF, but this is rare on a 406 HDi. It is more common on the 307 HDi 90 which uses a different flywheel.
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Post by chrismillie »

hi everyone had the gearbox of and found the prob it was the pressure plate the thrust bearing has worn wright throught it?so goin to fit a new clutch and see if this cures it...thanks chris..
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Post by fastandfurryous »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by PowerLee</i>


Never ever unplug an injector with the engine running, Conrod through the block & a wrecked engine if you do!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Why's that then? surely it just stops injecting fuel, and you have a 3-cylinder diesel engine and a 1-cylinder air pump.
I am trying to diagnose a rattle from my mothers 306 HDI 90 and a pug dealer recommended disconnecting each of the injectors in turn to see if it was a worn/weak injector. I haven't done this yet, mainly as I do not trust anything a dealer says.
PowerLee
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Post by PowerLee »

Unplug the injectors if you wish, But you will wreck the engine if you do.
Ive been told by 3 different Peugeot trained technicians to NEVER unplug a HDI injector while the engine is running.
Remember also the HDI fuel pressure can reach just over 19 500 PSI in those metal pipes, Are you sure you really want to play about with it?
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fastandfurryous
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Post by fastandfurryous »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by PowerLee</i>

Unplug the injectors if you wish, But you will wreck the engine if you do.
Remember also the HDI fuel pressure can reach just over 19 500 PSI in those metal pipes, Are you sure you really want to play about with it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
No, to be honest, I don't want to play around with it. But I do want to find out what the hell the rattle is on my mothers 306HDi90. It sounds just like pinking, happens at anything more than light acceration, but dissapears instantly as you pass 3100 RPM.
I'm still trying to work out how disconnecting an injector could possibly put a rod through the block..... Whilst I'm absolutely sure disconnecting an injector with the engine running can't be good (which is why I haven't done it) surely the only way to put a rod through the block is through major mechanical failure at the big/little end of the conrod?
The recommendation I had from a pug blokey (who is rapidly loosing any kind of credibility) was to disconnect each injector with the engine off, and then start it on 3 cylinders. Drive the car, and see if removing one of the injectors removes the rattle.
Think I might start a new thread for this.
PowerLee
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1994 - 405 GTX XU10J2
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Post by PowerLee »

Disconnecting a HDI injector with the engine running will result in hydraulic lock & the conrod through the side of the block.
Thats coming from my mate who is a Peugeot technician who has just returned from a 2 week Peugeot training course on HDIs
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fastandfurryous
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Post by fastandfurryous »

Ahhhh.... understand now. Presumably when disconnected, the injector leaks/injects enough fuel to cause a hydraulic lock under compression. Makes sense now. I didn't disbelieve you for a second.. I just like to understand why.
It may be that your mate is one of the few people who could have a good idea as to what is going on with this HDi90 engine. Any advice he can give would be MOST appreciated.
At any engine speed under 3100rpm(ish) there is a rattle, which sounds very similar to petrol engine pre-ignition. It gets louder under heavier load. Above 3100rpm it dissapears. As you accelerate through 3100rpm the rattle is quite loud, and then dissapears very abruptly. I'm sure something is being switched on/off at that point.
So far the two main contenders are a rattly EGR valve (which I will disconnect to check as soon as I see the car again) or possibly worn injectors which are injecting too much fuel on the "pre-injection" phase, and causing a genuine knock.
Otherwise the car drives fine, gives good power and economy, and can't be faulted.
Any guideance would be REALLY appreciated! thanks.
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Post by wheeler »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fastandfurryous</i>

[quote]
I'm still trying to work out how disconnecting an injector could possibly put a rod through the block.....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
although its not recomended on any HDi its the ones with peizo type injectors you shouldnt really disconect when running,the reason it can hydralic is because when you disconect a piezo injector when it is running it stays in exactly the same state it was in when it was disconected,so if the injector was open at the time it will stay open & constantly inject fuel into the cylinder,with pressures of up to 1350bar the cylinder will fill up rapidly with fuel which will then cause hydralic lock.
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Post by rossd »

At 3100 - 3200 rpm, the pre-injection is turned off, so there is just one injection phase and not 2. On mine, the engine sounds a lot more 'dieselly' as it passes approx this speed.
More info here:
http://www.christiantena.pwp.blueyonder ... index.html
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