general question

jakeuk · Post by **jakeuk** » 08 Apr 2005, 15:01

just wondering how easy it will be to inspect the cam belt on the xantia....i know the engine mount needs taking off but is it just the top of the bracket? & does anything else need undoing apart from the belt cover???

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 08 Apr 2005, 15:32

A wheel and wheel arch liner need removing, and possibly one of the turbo pipes too.

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 08 Apr 2005, 15:48

Inspecting a belt will tell you very little. I have removed belts with 90k miles of use, and they look fine. Conversley I have removed a belt from a car at 45k miles, and although every single tooth had a root crack, you coudn't see this until it was removed from the engine. I also have in my garage a failed belt from a Renault TD engine. It looks perfect, except for the big break in it!!
If you are in any doubt whatsoever about the condition of an XUD cambelt, then change it. The cost of the belt, compared to the cost of damage if it fails doesn't bear thinking about.
There has been much discussion on this forum about the best interval for cambelt changes. Some people recommend 36k miles. Peugeot reccommend 72k miles, although this is clearly too long, as the 2 belt failures I have experienced (not my cars thankfully!) have been on belts with about 80-90k on them.
Personally I recommend 50k miles. Not only is it a compromise between cost of replacement and risk of failure, but it's dead easy to remember too. It's not hard to change the belt on an XUDT engine, although you do need diagrams if you've not done it before. Irritatingly, it's about 2-3 hours work with the engine in the car, or about 20 mins with it removed! This is why if you EVER have an engine out, you change the belt.
Think about changing the coolant pump while you're at it. For £20, it means you don't have to go through the entire bloody procedure again when the pump fails 5k miles after fitting a new belt. Takes an extra 20-30 mins and is well worth it.

jakeuk · Post by **jakeuk** » 08 Apr 2005, 16:08

thanks lads for quick replies i know for a fact that it needs a new aux belt(old 1 is cracked & shiny)i have documentation to support a new timing belt shortly before i got the car & also have a nice gleaming cylinder head to go with the paperwork,but theres no guarentee as to wether the timing belt was done.... a citroen specialist garage has quoted me roughly£100 & said he would do both belts...its the best quote ive had but all the other quoters mentioned tensioners & pulleys but then went into £100s is the £100 about right or should i go with the pulley vendors......expert opinions greatly welcomed

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 08 Apr 2005, 17:42

The best advice is to check both pulleys when the belt is off. Any rough running/slack in them indicates that they need changing. The bearings in them are Sealed-for-life, and when they fail, that's it. I have only ever changed one belt pulley (the fixed one), as it was running rather roughly. They are each just over £20, and take seconds to change, so the cost of doing them should be about £45 more than not doing them.
£100 to have a belt done is not bad at all. I remember not very long ago (OK, about 6 years ago) Peugeot garages where charging over £300.
Or, Belt for £18, Aux belt for £10 and an afternoons work. This is my preferred method, but then I've done more than I can remember, and can almost do one in my sleep. [:D]

vanny · Post by **vanny** » 08 Apr 2005, 18:01

f&f, what is the accepted method of changing the (accesorie) pulleys? Are they really that easy? I've never noticed any obvious attachment point (bolts etc) but i do have one that sqeuls a LOT, largely due to having no tention in the belt (and it is the pulley rather than the belt!). Any tips?

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 08 Apr 2005, 18:40

Depends on what you have fitted. If the car has two items being driven by the Aux belt, then the tensioner pully is reasonably obvious, access being from within the front wheelarch. two locking bolts and a tensioner bolt (these are often siezed).
If (and I'm guessing this is the case) you have Aircon, alternator AND hydraulic pump on the aux belt, there is a mildly ridiculous arrangement of a manual tensioner, similar to the one above, and an automatic tensioner (one with a big spring on it). This is mounted deep underneath the alternator with 4 bolts. They do give trouble, and are a swine to change. If you are getting squealing noises, try tensioning the belt (with the manual adjuser). If this doesn't help, then I guess you have a siezed or weak auto tensioner. Changing this requires removal of the alternator to get any sort of clearance for tools in there.
My 405 with aircon has this problem, the auto tensioner spring arm is weak, and so I never get decent belt tension. Personally I am going to take it off, and weld it solid. Stupid idea anyway. Manual tensioners are a much better idea. As soon as I've worked out how to post an image on here, I'll put up an exploded diagram.
David.

vanny · Post by **vanny** » 08 Apr 2005, 18:56

Top ost an image you need to have it hosted first, if you want to email it to me i can put it up (GSF@bxproject.co.uk).
My car is a little 'Special', it did once have the aircon pump, but not since it went in the BX! Now i have the alternator and HP pump in the normal positions for with aircon, but without the Manual tensioner, and a standard 'small' belt and hence there is no tension. I cant so i have ever noticed an auto tensioning puller, but this could solve some of my current problems if i can free it!
I will eventually add aircon so im reluctant to move the accesories around to get the standard small belt on, and the ideal solution would be to get an old dead aircon pump and put the long belt and tensioner back on!
Fo the time being i'll use your advice and go have a look for the autotensioner and see if it's working or not!

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 08 Apr 2005, 19:02

The autotensioner pulley is the one between the crankshaft pulley and the hydro pump, and is the one you can see if you're looking down the side of the engine from above.
I can host an image myself, but what do you put on the listing to host? I am only just beginning to learn HTML tags and am still a bit unsure, especially as forum posts seem to use a different style than pure HTML.
PS. I'm just off to go and rebuild the brakes on a S3 Landrover, so I shan't be back until much later. Hopefully with an image!

vanny · Post by **vanny** » 08 Apr 2005, 19:50

Oh how i would like to be playing with a Series instead of being indoor trying not to be distracted from revision! In order to add the picture you need the web address of the image something like http://www.bxproject.co.uk/gallery/GSF/image_name.jpg, add this to you post and add [*img] before it and [*/img] after it (but without the '*'s, these are added here so that you can see the tags!) to give something like
[*img]http://www.bxproject.co.uk/gallery/GSF/image_name.jpg[*/img] (again you want it without the tags!) and thats it, you picture will appear! Remember to resize the image so it's not HUGE and preview it before submission to make sure its as your expecting!
As for the tensioners, from you description it sounds to me like the auto tensioner is the same as the one that is squeling on mine!

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 08 Apr 2005, 19:55

ive been playing with 2 of these for a while and this weekend wioll have to replace the wheel on the tensioner as i have one that is good and one that is squeeking and i cant be botherd to fit parts that may fail to my 2.1 project car, i will try and take some pictures of the operation with luck it will give you an insite into how this goes together.
This may help.
http://activa-all.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/XUD.GIF
Andy

fastandfurryous · Post by **fastandfurryous** » 09 Apr 2005, 04:38

Ah! I was beaten to it! that's the same exploded diagram I was going to post!
Thanks for the information on how to post an image. I'll try this at some point, although before then I shall have to become aquainted with a large attack helicopter. Oh.. sorry, wrong type of Apache (Like that joke hasn't been made before!)