Forte ATT in LHM systems

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nick
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Forte ATT in LHM systems

Post by nick »

I was just looking at the Forte website and noticed this;
http://www.forteuk.co.uk/Automatic_transmission.htm
<i>Automatic Transmission Treatment is the recommended treatment for hydraulic systems using LHM fluid such as used by Citroen, particularly for conditioning the rubber seal between the hydraulic fluid pipe and gas globe.
</i>
[:0]
I've never heard of that one before, has anyone on here tried it?
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

Must be good - as that seal never leaks if its put in properly!
I remember many years discussing some similar product that came in a plastic bottle or tube for manual gearboxes with a couple of mechanics and the consensus was that putting the plastic tube in as well would probably help silence a noisy box.
Work for some - I've used engine additives in the past with good results and may be about to put some Slick or similar in my BX gearbox.
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

If you have leaks from Citroen hydraulics - you have a <font color="red"><i>symptom</i></font id="red"> of a bigger problem. That bigger problem can <font color="red"><i>never</i></font id="red"> - not even temporarily - be cured with any kind of leakstop.
It would be waste of both time and money.
The reason is that the mentioned seal is under a pressure of some 150bar. A leak from such a pressure does not need leak stop - it needs regular repair.
A leak from low pressure rubber/plastic return lines indicates perished lines - can not be cured by leakstop.
The Forte stuff must have a disclaimer somewhere ?
nick
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Post by nick »

How I first noticed it was on their "Technical Tips" page where they list calls they've received on the helpline and the answers given. The one that caught my eye was in Jan 04;
<i>CITROEN - Xantia. Power steering stiff when cold. Use ATT.
</i>
Maybe they are suggesting using it as a substitute for hydraflush?
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Post by NiSk »

This sounds like a similar product to Omega 917. Which is a chemical that disperses into the oil and is picked up by natural rubber components. It decrystalises the rubber and makes it soft again. It does work in Citroën LHM system. I've used it in my XM, which had failing steering due, apparently to the seals. It was a darn site cheaper than repairing the rack and has lasted well over a year.
The product is recommended by Caterpillar and other earth moving machine manufacturers for hydraulic systems - it seems the seals on the hydraulic rams get a lot of abuse and this treatment keeps most of the fluid inside the system. I've also used it to great effect in the engine (TD12) to stop oil leaking from the rear (flywheel) oil seal onto the clutch.
//NiSk
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Post by Kowalski »

When the rubber gets hard and cracks, no amount of stop leak or seal conditioner will be able to heal the cracks in the rubber. Seal additives make the seals swell up to their original size (or greater) to they fill the hole they should be sealing and soften the rubber.
Really these sort of additives are a bodge repair, the correct repair would involve replacing or repairing what is worn or leaking, but its not always economically viable hence the bodge. My older Xantia had Celit put in the cooling system to stop a leak on the radiator, its been in for over 5 years now and hasn't clogged. The alternative at the time was a new radiator which was rather more expensive, if it had clogged the radiator or coolant passages in the engine it would have cost rather more than the cost of a radiator to put right.
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Post by ActivaV6uk »

I've heard of this being used as a cleaning agent in citroen hydrolics befor.
Andy
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Post by NiSk »

Then there are seal savers and seal savers . . . http://www.sovereign-omega.co.uk/opim917.pdf
//NiSk
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Post by Kowalski »

From the Pdf Nisk posted above.
"Once a seal has chipped or cracked, replacement is the only remedy. A cracked seal results in the loss of 2 or more quarts of fluid every week. A defective seal can eventually cause irreparable damage to the entire transmission or unit. Replacing a seal is a big job. The transmission must be completely removed and disassembled and this is a costly procedure."
You can usually spot snake oil type products because they are a wonder cure for all problems of all types. The manufacturer of this product acknowledges that it has limitations, they're honest and realistic about their product which is always a good sign. If I have a leak on a crankshaft oil seal or a gearbox input shaft, maybe I'll try some of this...
nick
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Post by nick »

I have used something similar in the engine oil of an A-reg BX 14 my mum used to own. The crankshaft oil seal was leaking badly behind the belt pulley, so much so that oil was dribbling onto the alternator & hp pump belts, causing them to slip badly. The condition of rest of the car meant it wasn't worth stripping down the engine to replace the seal, so I put some oil stop leak in. It certainly didn't stop the leak completely, but it slowed the leak down enough to stop oil getting on the belts, and she was able to get another 2 years use out of a car which probably would have been scrapped otherwise.
Its the first time I've heard of this type of thing being used in a Citroen hydraulic system though!
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