406 2.1TD

fatbugger · Unread post by **fatbugger** » 09 Mar 2005, 22:52

Hi all
Thanks to an inconciderate Ford Focus driver my 406 GLXTD has been written off in a big way.
I am looking to replace and have seen a 1997 R reg 406 executive 2.1td for sale with all the whistles and bells.
Not wanting my head to be turned with the leather interior and all the goodies that go with it I need to know what the engines are like.
A lot of people I have spoken too seem to draw breath very quickly and tell me not to touch it with a barge pole.
Are there any horror stories? What should I look for? It's up for sale at £1995 ono which seems a bit cheap and I don't know the mileage yet. Can anyone advise as to whether to buy or leave well alone

PowerLee · Unread post by **PowerLee** » 09 Mar 2005, 23:00

The 2.1 isnt a bad engine, But the gearbox & clutch are different to every other 406 & can be expensive to fix.
Also second hand instrument panels are like gold dust & highly sought after.
I myself wouldnt touch a 2.1 TD engine, Go for the 1.9, Loads of these about & cheap to fix when they do go wrong.

fatbugger · Unread post by **fatbugger** » 10 Mar 2005, 14:25

Hi Lee
Thanks for the info looks like I will avoid this one and look for another 1.9 TD
Regards

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 10 Mar 2005, 21:14

.. presumably the engine itself isn't the problem, am I right in saying that it is simply an XUD block bored out to 2088cc, with a 12v head on it? If so, then I guess it would make an interesting retro-fit into some other car where a 1905cc XUD has come out.

christi · Unread post by **christi** » 14 Mar 2005, 21:10

what is the problem with the 2.1 instruments ?

macaroni · Unread post by **macaroni** » 18 Mar 2005, 13:44

I had a 406 2.1TD GLX for 5 years and loved it. The only big problem I had was that the fuel pump leaked and cost about £500 to replace. Apart from that, it was fine. I fitted a TUNIT IV chip and the mid-range punch was superb. It had done over 140K miles when I sold it and it didn't use any oil at all.
They are much better to drive than the 1.9 and offer more tuning possibilities. Plenty of spares available too from scrappies as that engine was also in the Citroen XM.
I would say go for it.

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 18 Mar 2005, 15:16

Does anyone know if the 2088cc XUD was ever available with purely mechanical fuel injection, or has it always had some form of electronic control?

Dave Bamber · Unread post by **Dave Bamber** » 19 Mar 2005, 01:01

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fastandfurryous</i>

Does anyone know if the 2088cc XUD was ever available with purely mechanical fuel injection, or has it always had some form of electronic control?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Word is you can replace the pump and injectors with the stuff from a TD BX.

turbolag · Unread post by **turbolag** » 20 Mar 2005, 01:08

If it's fitted with EGR then avoid - possible head cracking problems on 2.1s with this. Save a few more pennies and get and HDI. You won't regret it.

ActivaV6uk · Unread post by **ActivaV6uk** » 20 Mar 2005, 14:24

I've been working on one of these engines for a while and its basically got more in common with the HDi than the XUD, the bottom end is an XUD block with different liners the pistons are obviously bigger. The crank is a highly developed copy of another crank used in the petrol XU series (not going into detail on that one). The head uses the exact same manufacturing process that the HDi 8v's use (I have both heads side by side at the moment and have stripped both down at some time over the last 2 months).
the engine I have here is a (EGR) 200,000 mile beast and I’m impressed to see no cracking around the swirl chambers, in fact other than the very dirty oil and water ways the head is far better than any 1.9/1.7 I’ve ever seen (I've had the head of 4 1.7TD's, 3 1.9TD's and 2 1.9D's and on all those engines bar one that had done under 51,000 they all had cracked swirl pot chambers). The injectors are common with the XUD injectors except no4 (timing belt end) which has a needle lift sensor which connects to the ecu.
It may help you to know that the gearbox is common with the Xantia (Activa/CT, v6 (different final drives)) Xantia 2.1, xm 2.1 and 605 2.1 there are currently lots of XM's dieing from lack of interest and the box is very strong so spares are normal not necessary and fairly cheep and easy to find if you need them. they use a hydraulic actuator on the clutch, which means when you come to change the clutch its very easy (you twist and remove the actuator it takes all of 10 seconds. try getting the pin out of a corroded release arm on a 1.9 so far I have never managed it even when i sent the engine and block to a garage they still couldn’t get the arm off with out an angle grinder...)
If the 406 is still available I’d have a good look at what condition the water and oil is in any service records and then give it a long test drive. You will find its a different car to the 1.9 td as it has a lot more power which is suited to the shell (like the 1.7td suited the BX - its a fun car to drive).
Andy

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 21 Mar 2005, 02:55

in theory then it would be possible to play mix and match with various engine components, and make a 2.1 engine, but with purely mechanical injection from a 1.9 engine? I am looking to build a reasonably powerful turbo-diesel engine for my kit car, but am avoiding any form of electronic control. I know it's possible to up a 1.9TD's output to about 115-120hp, so with a 2.1 bottom end, I wonder if 140hp would be possible. Hmmm.

macaroni · Unread post by **macaroni** » 21 Mar 2005, 16:12

I think the early 605/XM cars on the continent had limited electronic control. It was only when this engine was fitted to the 406 did it gain the LUCAS EPIC injection system.
Best advice I can give is if you get it, give it a shot of 10K boost to clear the inlets and then disconnect the EGR valve. It can cause quite severe clogging up of the inlet manifold.
I got a usefully revvier (word?) engine on mine after doing this.

Wookey · Unread post by **Wookey** » 22 Mar 2005, 18:33

Also check out the version fitted in vans - they often miss off the refinements like electronics. I know the XUD11 has been used in the Expert/Scudo/Dispatch series. I'll have to check my manual or the parts CD for details, which I don't have to hand right now.

christi · Unread post by **christi** » 24 Mar 2005, 16:44

I have another question for ActivaV6UK....
My 806 HDI has 85mm bore and 88mm stroke
the 2.1 had 85mm and 92mm stroke
would a 2.1 crank and con rods fit into an HDI giving a 2.1 HDI ?
the HDI has 28mm little end and the con rods are 145mm long
the 2.1 connrods would have to be 2mm shorter and also have a 28mm little end for it to work, but I can't find any details for these things on the 2.1
everything I know is at
http://www.christiantena.pwp.blueyonder ... gines.html
I heard somewhere that the HDI block is actually based on the 2.1 which is what makes me wonder if it could be done

fastandfurryous · Unread post by **fastandfurryous** » 28 Mar 2005, 04:13

The DK5ATE engine that you list there.. is that the 2.5TD engine as first used in the XM? and if so, is that based on the same "XUD" block casting? I have never seen one of these engines, and know very little about them. If it is an XUD block, with the same cylinder spacing, I guess the amount of metal between adjacent cylinders must be getting a bit thin, as on an 88mm bore there isn't that much! I know the cylinder spacing on the CX/C25 2.5 diesel engine was much bigger than the XUD (like about 10mm more!)
I'm only interested, as I'm looking to make a high-performance diesel engine for a kit car. Some sceptics (of diesels) have said it can't be done. Thus, I must do it!