129bhp from a 1.9td

sooty · Post by **sooty** » 01 Feb 2005, 01:08

I've seen on another site where a chap says he has got 129bhp from a 1.9td by just increasing the boost, using the Standard Intercooler and no Head gasket problems. His boost is set at 1.6 bar. Its been on rolling road to get this figure.
Surely there must be more to this just pumping up the boost??

ItDontGo · Post by **ItDontGo** » 01 Feb 2005, 01:35

He wont look so clever when he blows it up. Why didn't Citroen crank up the boost if its so good?
And another thing, a petrol would be quicker against a clock because a petrol can generally rev half as much again in the same gear.

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 01 Feb 2005, 01:38

Not true! Acceleration depends on torque, not HP and the diesel has a much lower gearing meaning that you don't have to change gear so frequently!
//NiSk

np · Post by np » 01 Feb 2005, 02:01

Agree with both ItDontGo & NiSk.In 99 i had a brand new Rover 200 VI.1.8 vvc,145 bhp,128 lbft.O-60 in 7.2 secs.6 months later i had a new 200 TD.2.0,105 bhp,155 lbft.0-60 9.8 secs.The VI would win hands down in a sprint,but through the gears,something like 30-50 mph in 3rd,50-70 mph in 4th,the TD was quicker by over 3 secs(in the Rover book).In fact,all the in gear times,it beat the VI.Unless you just thrashed the pants off the VI,then it was quicker.
I have 115bhp,just from fuel pump tweaks.What would i have if up`d the boost?!?!(not that i will of coarse)

ItDontGo · Post by **ItDontGo** » 01 Feb 2005, 02:02

Torque and power are the same thing. Once you have a gearbox then power is the only important factor. Power is simply the torque multiplied by the angular engine speed. Diesels have more 'torque' because they have a lot of power at low engine speeds. Mainly due to the fact that they are designed to operate at low engine speeds hence things like cylinder filling is optimised for this.

np · Post by np » 01 Feb 2005, 02:53

When i had mine uprated,the company said the most they had from a 1.9td was 150 bhp.(in the development days!),but it was so unrelible,bad tickover,poor mpg,headgaskets etc,that 115bhp was the best power for relibilty,mpg,etc.In the near 40k since i`ve had mine done,i`ve never had any problems.

mrbump · Post by **mrbump** » 01 Feb 2005, 03:13

Exactly what itdontgo said. The diesel just has power more of the time. If you could keep the 200vi in its (higher) power band all of the time, it would be quicker, but you would need to drop a couple of gears, thats why the diesel has it beat for in gear times.
Torque is NOT a measure of outright performance.
The higher eficiency of burning diesel at much higher compression gives more power lower in the revs, but the slow burning characteristics limit top end power. I prefer this cos it means you can be alot more lazy with the gear stirrer![:p]
The prob with the guy with the standard intercooler is that his intake temps are going to be through the roof. He is operating the turbo well without the safe zone using an 'interheater' to cool the charge! I wouldnt be surprised if the intake temps into the engine arent aroung 100deg c or more. No petrol car would ever tolerate that, and I am interested to see what gives up first on his diesel! The turbo cant be long for this world at least.
Anyway, you cant get 1.6 bar by just increasing the boost. You mean he says he didnt touch the fuel settings? You could take the wastegate actuator off completely and still wouldnt get 1.6 bar on standard fuel. Or even if you completely screwed the max fuel setting in it would be pretty marginal. Has he actually rotated the innards of the pump? You could do that and get 1.6 bar i suppose. I reckon it would be around the 130bhp mark. Again questionable reliability.
Maybe he has 129bhp on full throttle/boost, but hardly ever puts the foot down to get the full boost. You could preserve the engine for ages like that.
Have you got a link? Bwe interesting to see what he says. Is it on the peugeot sport forum thing?
Cheers

np · Post by np » 01 Feb 2005, 03:27

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mrbump</i>

If you could keep the 200vi in its (higher) power band all of the time, it would be quicker, but you would need to drop a couple of gears, thats why the diesel has it beat for in gear times. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
In the case of the VI,7200rpm![:D][}:)]
TD,4500rpm.

sooty · Post by **sooty** » 01 Feb 2005, 03:42

Hi Greg,
Heres the the link for the chap who gets 129bhp http://www.pughosting.co.uk/forum/showt ... hp?t=31689

vanny · Post by **vanny** » 01 Feb 2005, 05:13

I must protest! Torque is a very usefull figure to have, it tells you just how big a house you can TOW! I personally do a lot of towing and in city driving so would much rather have a higher torque than power figure (albeit it relative) i can still beat Yoof off the line where needed! That said i have greater lb/ft than most BX 16v but only half the bhp (i have 86BHP compared to 166bhp), so i figure i can tow the same size house with less fuel consumption! And that has to be better than speed trap ticket fines!

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 01 Feb 2005, 05:38

Hi Guys,
you could always just buy yourself a nice CX2500 GTi Turbo and have both power and torque [}:)] [:D]
seeya,
Shane L.

paranoid · Post by **paranoid** » 01 Feb 2005, 13:30

In the words of the old fella who taught me how to tune 2 strokes.....
They can all make staggering BHP.......long pause.......FOR A VERY VERY SHORT WHILE[:D]

rossd · Post by **rossd** » 01 Feb 2005, 13:32

Talking of induction temperatures, I have been doing some sums and at 4000rpm at full throttle (and therefore boost (0.95bar), the intake charge temp in a 90bhp HDi is 97.7 degrees C!!!
(You need a compressor map to work out some of the figures needed, I was using a map for a Garrett GT15 which I'm pretty sure my HDi has.)
Why didnt PSA have the 1.9td 130BHp from the factory? Well it wouldnt be reliable, the filthy black smoke that would come from the exhaust would be awful, and it probably does about 20mpg running in that state of tune!!
I'm surprised that the little turbo can run 1.6 bar without going pop, it must be way out of its efficiency envelope and as said the charge temps must be crazy!!

Post by **cheesesliceking** » 01 Feb 2005, 13:45

take it to Derv Doctor, they are genius in tuning up those tractor engines!

mrbump · Post by **mrbump** » 01 Feb 2005, 16:17

ross, the intake temps wont be that high at 1 bar. If you have been working out the tems from the maps, remember there is an itercooler after that. I have tested both the topmount and my front mount (same intercooler) with a thermocouple and multimeter, and it seems that both are around 50-60% efficient at full bore for short periods (down from 110/120 to 60 ish max), but after a couple of miles of hard driving, the top mount drops to 40% whereas the front stays at around 60%. The top mount is especially bad when going slow after hard driving when it sems to do nothing at all!
About the torque thing, did anyone see Top Git that time when clarkson got beat in the 400bhp evo by some sub 100bhp trolley in fifth?, no torque at all due to low comp and massive lag. Just shows ya, catch them sleeping in the diesel, and boost past before they get a chance to shift![}:)][}:)][:D]