terrible xantia handling on motorway (SOLVED!)

kid · Post by **kid** » 30 Jan 2005, 22:31

ive just been on the motorway and the steering is absolutley terrible, almost heart attack like.
what happens is upto 60mph it is fine, anything above it slides badly, and i have to correct it, the faster i go the more the sideways movement. i am holding the steering wheel tight and still moving about. round motorway bends i have to slow down still further. the sidewind was not to much either. this is making a very stressful unenjoyable journey
i feel i just cant go over 65 at all
at sandstill there is no free play so is it the tyres? or is this how the xantia is? any ideas please
i should have said this appears to be more noticable on uneven stretches, and also when crossing lanes, which i am trying to avoid doing, although at 60 on the motorway is not really a problem!

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 30 Jan 2005, 22:41

Some basic first - when the car is standing still and the engine running, level control at normal: press down on each corner of the car. If it can be depressed 3-4 inches with normal body pressure, the suspension spheres are OK, if it's rock hard, the spheres on that end of the car need changing/regassing.
If the suspension reacts OK, get the wheel alignment checked, also look out for duff tyres.
//NiSk

kid · Post by **kid** » 30 Jan 2005, 22:53

suspension spheres all checked, yes all go down and rise, and fall again.
got 4 whhel alignment last year prior to new fronts (old ones were unevenly worn, new ones wearing evenly so far)
i have print out of alignment:
FRONT
toe L -0.4mm
R -0.3
total -0.7
camber L -00 27 degree
R +00 24
out of alignment +00 05 degree
tracking diff -00 14
REAR
toe L +2.5mm
R +0.5
total +3.00
camber L -01 37 degree
R -00 57
thrust angle +00 10 degree
out of alignment -00 06
tyres? thats my thought but how do you know there bad?

gardenpeas · Post by **gardenpeas** » 31 Jan 2005, 00:07

check the balancing on the font wheels, just had mine done all is well this problem arises at about 65 with un balanced wheels, a weight might have fallen off
good luck

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 31 Jan 2005, 00:36

Sit the car on level ground at normal height and look at the rear wheels from behind the car.
They should look like |-|
If they look a little like /-| or |-\ or /-\ then the rear arm bearings need replacing (possibly the whole arms). When I had this problem on a BX it made it very unstable at speed.
If they look like \-/ then you have a boat, in which case this is the wrong forum.[:o)]

np · Post by np » 31 Jan 2005, 01:10

What about the tyre pressures?When i upgraded my tyres from 185/65/15 to 205/60/15,i put the pressures in for the larger tyres.I had the same probs as you.So i lowerd the pressures back down to the 185 pressures,which cured it.
Not knowing what size tyres you have,i cant tell you the pressures.Might be worth checking them though.

kid · Post by **kid** » 31 Jan 2005, 01:17

checked the rear wheels and are straight and parellel to each other, also tyre wear is even, and both have around half their life left.
there is not any vibration through the wheel, so dont know if its the balancing, but ill check tommorow if i can get the wheel trims off!
tyre pressure are all ok checked regurlarly.
re tyre size 185/65 14 the fronts are t rated the rears are h,
(would the speed rating make any difference, fronts are avon cr322).
my feeling is its the front tyres, the steering does not feel right, almost as if the car is trying to steer itself. its strange as upto 60mph its fine, only above is the problem.

paranoid · Post by **paranoid** » 31 Jan 2005, 01:21

Really would suspect spheres, workmate had a terrible experience on the m5 with only 2 shot front spheres, reckons he took up two and a half lanes at 85 mph had to stop in gloucester and get them changed!!!!
Said it was like driving on ice once you hit a certain speed, said it was ok till that very moment.

kid · Post by **kid** » 31 Jan 2005, 01:30

id be suprised if its the spheres, fronts changed 2 years ago, rears 2.5 years ago. as ive said ive preseed down all all sides and all go down, rise, then fall when pressure taken off.

406 V6 · Post by **406 V6** » 31 Jan 2005, 02:28

After a year passed i would certainly check the steering alignment.
One other thing, make sure the alignment is done with the engine running, normal height and hand-brake ONLY, on (don't go for it if the brake pedal is pressed, like on regular cars). I know what i'm saying, as i just spent 3 hours last saturday for a simple alignment (a citroën was never before serviced att the shop, even worst, my C5 who was a guinea-pig)
Cheers!

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 31 Jan 2005, 03:25

Don't want to sound stoopid, but do you happen to have directional tyres on the car?
I was asked to look at a Korean throwaway a few months back that wouldn't stay on the road. They'd taken it into a Daypoo dealer for a routine service and he had inadvertantly swapped locations of a couple of tyres whilst the wheels were off and as a result, 2 were running in the wrong direction.
The car had been back to the dealer numerous times and had a couple of wheel alignments but nobody had picked the arrows pointing backwards.
Failing that, I'd go with the possible low pressure on one or more spheres or lower control arm bushes.
Alan S

JohnCKL · Post by **JohnCKL** » 31 Jan 2005, 05:55

Perhaps your lower arm bushes have worn out. When was the last time you replaced them? I've driven my 8yr old Xantia with worn out bushes and the car will drift sideways whenever I accelerate or decelerate. Check other suspension bushes too.

sbraud · Post by **sbraud** » 31 Jan 2005, 13:37

Try swapping front tyres over (left for right) and see if it pulls in the other direction.
I had a similar problem before Christmas. Xant was pulling to right all the time, the faster I went the harder it would pull. My first thought was tracking, so had it checked… it checked out fine.
Whilst I had the offending wheel off I noticed a very subtle uneven wear around the surface of tyre. It was so slight you could only just see it when wheel was spinning, but if you put the palm of your hand on surface whilst it was spinning you could feel it… up & down motion along whole circumference. Apparently the wire supports in the walls of the tyre has given out.
It might be worth a look if only to eliminating them from list.
Cheers
Steve

kid · Post by **kid** » 31 Jan 2005, 14:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">After a year passed i would certainly check the steering alignment.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
the car has done less than 5k since it was last check, and not hit any kerbs etc. so i would rule this out. on a staraight no camber road the car steers straight ahead an ddoes not pull, upto about 60mph.
yes it was done with the car running, normal height and brake not pushed.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Don't want to sound stoopid, but do you happen to have directional tyres on the car?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
i dont know ill have a look today when i check if the balance weight are still there
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Perhaps your lower arm bushes have worn out. When was the last time you replaced them? I've driven my 8yr old Xantia with worn out bushes and the car will drift sideways whenever I accelerate or decelerate. Check other suspension bushes too.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
ive had the car checked over by a number of mechanics and they come back with the 'response nothing wrong a lovely drive'!
unfortunatly testing at motorway speed is diffult when the motorways are miles form their workshops.
i rang the main dealer in rotherham where the last owner had it serviced, and they said the wishbone susupension was changed in 2000, dont konw if this includes the lower arm bushes, but their are no noises when accelarting or braking.
mechanics all say fine under there. eg bearing, bushes, arms
i want to stress when on the motoroway the steering feels overassisited, with not much accuracy when moving, almost as if its trying to drive itself, im having to hold the steering tight to prevent this from happening. this self- steering is at its worst when going over bumps or potholes, when the car swings to the left or right.
there is also understeer when moving between lanes, which adds to the experience!
im thinking could it be the tyres tramlining due to incompatibilty or the different speed ratings on the front (ie t rated)
i dont know much about this but are the characteristics,
1) follows the road contours
2) difficult to keep steering straight
3) generally useless handing

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 31 Jan 2005, 15:42

I just replaced the rear arm bearings on my BX16V. The wheels were definitely not leaning in at the top, but they were moving to & fro as though steering. The car had a problem "torque steering" in other words, when I flattened the loud pedal the car drove itself across the road. I had directional tyres on the front. I changed them to the rear and fitted multi directionals to the front and it improved, but didn't fix the problem. Once the rear arm bearings were replaced, problem solved.
As I say, directional tyres can create big problems particularly if fitted reverse rotation, but by the same token, any wear in either the front or rear arm bushes will definitely give you the symptoms you describe.
A service guy won't pick it unless he gets the wheels off the ground and uses a pinch or tommy bar to exert pressure. It can't be done by hand or by just looking.
Alan S