new diesel injectors

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 11 Jan 2005, 19:51

Hello everyone, with my old BX rapidly approaching the quarter million mile mark its starting to smoke a bit. I am thinking about treating it to a new set of injectors-according to its service records, they have never been looked at.
According to my Haynes book there are 'fire seals'- akin to a plug gasket I suppose.
I phoned GSF-they stock the injectors, but they don't come with these seals- does anyone know of a source of supply for them?
Thanks.

ralph · Post by **ralph** » 11 Jan 2005, 20:02

Bought them from a Peugeot dealer in the past. They're about 80p each, which will make you laugh/wince when you see how tiny they are.

beezer · Post by **beezer** » 11 Jan 2005, 20:02

Try LSUK(Lucas). www.lsuk.co.uk

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 11 Jan 2005, 20:45

Ta-at least the things are available.It looks like a trip to the Pug dealers- they do have a good spares stock, its just that you seem to need half a day and a ouija board to order anything.........I was hoping for an on-line supplier!

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 11 Jan 2005, 21:08

Do you really need new injectors? If you have them re-conditioned you can get new tips for maybe £30 a piece.
The copper washers don't really need replacing either. If they work harden, you heat them up until they glow cherry red then drop them into a bucket of water. My Dad did this for years with various Mirrlees diesel engines, they needed their injectors cleaning every 500 hours otherwise they got a bit sooty.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 11 Jan 2005, 21:21

I did think about getting them reconditioned but I need the car every day, and with GSF doing them for £19.50 each plus VAT its probably just as cheap to stick replacement ones in as take the old ones to a reconditioner, with all the hassle that would entail.
It no longer responds to the usual air filter change and injector cleaner treatment, so taking its mileage into consideration its time to do something about it before smoke test time, also I don't want poor spray patterns and atomisation washing the oil off the bores.
Its smoking only at high revs and/or heavy load at present, and I could just turn down the fuelling a bit or the max engine speed setting- this would get it through a smoke test but if I keep the car its not really a long term solution.

bernie · Post by **bernie** » 11 Jan 2005, 21:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bxbodger

I did think about getting them reconditioned but I need the car every day, and with GSF doing them for £19.50 each plus VAT <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Crikes that's cheap, that must be exchange price.
As to the washers, I've reused them and had no problems.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 11 Jan 2005, 22:39

Kowalski, you heat em until cherry red then let them cool naturally otherwise they harden (BSA owners club"re-annealing head gaskets on the campfire") I have had injectors serviced/new nozzles reasonably circa£25 each, good as new
Stewart

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 11 Jan 2005, 23:14

As also recomended in 'hints and tips for motorcyclists' an amusing tome I have which was printed in 1957. Opened at random, I see I can make a snow chain from old nails........
Haynes refer to both 'copper washers' AND 'fire seal washers', but they both do look like copper in the photos, so its out with the blowtorch and cold water!
Back to BSA's, I have the set of factory service sheets for A,B,C,D, and M models, engines, frame data, electrics, the lot-if anyones in need of a photocopy let me know. You can tell they were made in Birmighham-crankpin alignment is done with "sharp blows with a mallet".

Wookey · Post by **Wookey** » 12 Jan 2005, 02:37

They are both copper - there is a big fat washer and the little 'fire seal' washers are very thin cupped things. Glad to hear that I don't really need to replace these every time - I did wonder, and they are very expensive for what you get at peugeot (of course).
I had my injectors serviced a decade or so ago for 80 quid (for 4) and the engine did noticeably improve. I'm about to have the current lot done as part of the engine upgrade. I have quite a few to choose from now so I can keep two sets

I'll probably adjust one set for a veg-oil spray pattern and corresponding higher pressure.

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 12 Jan 2005, 05:25

I thought the fire seal washers were stainless steel?, the replacement ones i got from peugeot for my 406td (xud) looked like stainless, I'll check tomorrow as i have got one left in a box in the garage as i found 5 in my gasket set when there should of only been 4, and i wouldnt think it is worth trying to reuse the fireseal ones because if you dont get a good seal on those then its bye bye head chanber thingies as they burn up with the heat !

ItDontGo · Post by **ItDontGo** » 12 Jan 2005, 13:49

If they have been plastically deformed considerably they will be work hardened to some extent so heating them to 400-500^oC will anneal them (reduce their yield stress - the point at which permanent deformation occurs). If you them shove them in a bucket of cold water, and they are made of carbon steel, they will harden but in a different way to that of work hardening. This process is called quenching and, due to the speed of the cooling process, it traps bits of carbon in between the iron crystals and hence does not allow the molecular movement that occurs when the material is allowed to cool slowly in air.
If they are made of copper it wont make any difference if you quench it.
What is it that you are annealing as I dont really understand what that bits all about. Is it the seal or the injector?

rg · Post by rg » 12 Jan 2005, 13:57

Please excuse any offence, but have you tried any injector cleaner stuff, such as Forte?
The XUD on my 1.9 atmo pug went to 251K, and the emissions got bettereach test. On that basis or development, I could use the engine for an air purification unit...
Pleiedes and some other Cit indies are well impressed with the Forte stuff, Pleiedes having done a "before and after" on their emissions tester.
rg

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 12 Jan 2005, 17:29

The bits referred to are seals similar to plug washers, not the actual injector. Haynes describes one as being copper, but doesn't specify what the 'fire seal' is.
According to Wookey's post, above, they are both copper and not steel, so should be o.k. for the blowtorch treatment- it used to work on my old Jap strokers at decoke time!
Having said that, though, I will probably just get some new ones as they will be relatively cheap.
I have used Injector cleaner, and I could get it through a smoke test, but the smoke is definately getting more visible when its on the governor going uphill on the motorway- it used to be only visible at night in following car headlamps, but now its visible in daylight-one or more of the injectors is probably now eroded at the tip.

Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 12 Jan 2005, 20:17

I recently got new copper and crush washers from Lucas. The copper ones were the wrong thickness and I ended up re-using the old ones. The man at Lucas was adamant that the ones he supplied were correct one, but they were not, when Iused them they absolutely flattened the crush washer, not a good thing. From memory the set of 8 was about a fiver.
Bob S