35 seconds oil
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pikecrazy
- Posts: 126
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35 seconds oil
Will this run in a hdi diesel car ?
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ACTIVE8
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Robin
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35 sec oil is a standard heating oil viscosity and yes a diesel will run on it. The general oil from the garage pumps is less, around 22 to 28 sec and being a lighter oil will generally run cleaner. There is a debate here about the higher calorific value of 35 vs 22 and I have not seen any direct performance or emission comparisons for more modern engines.
If you want to try it then on your head be it!
Modern common rail diesels or engines with full electronic/ECU control may be fooled by it though so again some caution. Older non ecu engines should be fine though. Bear in mind that 35 sec oil may not contain any of the cold weather additives. Robin
If you want to try it then on your head be it!
Modern common rail diesels or engines with full electronic/ECU control may be fooled by it though so again some caution. Older non ecu engines should be fine though. Bear in mind that 35 sec oil may not contain any of the cold weather additives. Robin
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NiSk
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JohnD
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jonathan_dyane
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Hmm. The car will certainly run on the oil, *but* I'm not sure of the long term prognosis.
I have experience of 28 second oil, and I must say it bears far more resemblance to paraffin than to diesel. Paraffin is horrible rust-provoking stuff, very much the opposite of diesel, and I hate to think what it could do to a diesel pump and injectors, never mind the more complex gubbins of HDI.
We once aquired a CX Safari TD which had been used for smuggling beer and fags. It had been run mostly on 'paraffin' (I assume 28 second oil). The engine was a total mess (cracked pistons even!), and the injectors were knackered. The injector pump we used on another engine, and it didn't last long either.
Draw your own conclusions, but be very careful...
If you want to reduce costs, why not go down the veggie route?
I have experience of 28 second oil, and I must say it bears far more resemblance to paraffin than to diesel. Paraffin is horrible rust-provoking stuff, very much the opposite of diesel, and I hate to think what it could do to a diesel pump and injectors, never mind the more complex gubbins of HDI.
We once aquired a CX Safari TD which had been used for smuggling beer and fags. It had been run mostly on 'paraffin' (I assume 28 second oil). The engine was a total mess (cracked pistons even!), and the injectors were knackered. The injector pump we used on another engine, and it didn't last long either.
Draw your own conclusions, but be very careful...
If you want to reduce costs, why not go down the veggie route?
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Robin
- Posts: 485
- Joined: 01 Jan 2004, 18:45
It is important you do understand the difference between 35 sec 'heating' oil which is diesel oil to all intents and purposes and TVO (Tractor Vapourising Oil) which is heavy paraffin 28 sec oil and further refined.
Non ECU or common rail diesels will run on all of this but the 35 sec heating oil is the safest. The TVO light oil will destroy the engine eventually. It was intended for low compression spark ignition engines with a preheat arrangement in the exhaust manifold.
35 sec heating oil will run in any diesel, including HDI, with a preheat arrangement but the higher calorific value may just mess up the little brain which is still analogue I think and therefore only thinks in straight lines[:0]
Non ECU or common rail diesels will run on all of this but the 35 sec heating oil is the safest. The TVO light oil will destroy the engine eventually. It was intended for low compression spark ignition engines with a preheat arrangement in the exhaust manifold.
35 sec heating oil will run in any diesel, including HDI, with a preheat arrangement but the higher calorific value may just mess up the little brain which is still analogue I think and therefore only thinks in straight lines[:0]
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Oscar Too
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ACTIVE8
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The common rail diesel high pressure injection engines we have now from any manufacturer, are vastly different from previous designs, we had many years ago. The HDI design has many more complex components where <font color="red"> proper lubrication is essential.</font id="red">
All diesel engines utilise the lubricant qualities, and properties of diesel as a means of extra lubrication, but the HDI type of engine even more so.
Generally a HDI engine fuel system consists of in it's very basic form, of unit pump injectors which are computer controled , and injecting fuel at extremely high pressures, which are much greater than earlier more basic non HDI designs.
Low and high pressure pumps deliver the fuel, one at a low pressure draws it from the tank passing it to the high pressure pump, where the extremely high pressures are generated before it is delivered to the injectors.
It is imperative that these components are correctly <font color="red">lubricated, and cooled. </font id="red"> Diesel fuel actually performs both of these essential requirements. When the fuel is returned to the tank it is common to see that the return pipe takes the form of a coiled pipe, adjacent to the fuel tank. This is to increase the surface area of the pipe, and to allow it to act as a heat exchanger. Cooling the fuel is essential before it returns to the tank, because the high pressures used for injection to create more efficient combustion, actually generate a lot of heat in the fuel as it is compressed, and it needs to be dissipated.
It cannot be stressed enough that diesel is essential to also <font color="red">lubricate </font id="red"> all the fuel system components in an HDI design. These components are not cheap, and to experiment with the lubrication, will not help with their reliability in the short, or long term.
I have seen examples of what poor quality fuel can do to the modern HDI engine, and components can, and do get damaged. In certain cases they will seize up! Tiny fragments of swarf from components that have suffered very premature wear can circulate around the entire system, and wreak havoc on the whole system, requiring a thorough investigation, and complete strip down. To assertain what expensive damage has been caused.
When you consider how much design, and engineering has gone into making them as fuel efficient, and powerful as they now are, why experiment with the fuel. It could prove to be a costly mistake that you will regret if things go wrong.
All diesel engines utilise the lubricant qualities, and properties of diesel as a means of extra lubrication, but the HDI type of engine even more so.
Generally a HDI engine fuel system consists of in it's very basic form, of unit pump injectors which are computer controled , and injecting fuel at extremely high pressures, which are much greater than earlier more basic non HDI designs.
Low and high pressure pumps deliver the fuel, one at a low pressure draws it from the tank passing it to the high pressure pump, where the extremely high pressures are generated before it is delivered to the injectors.
It is imperative that these components are correctly <font color="red">lubricated, and cooled. </font id="red"> Diesel fuel actually performs both of these essential requirements. When the fuel is returned to the tank it is common to see that the return pipe takes the form of a coiled pipe, adjacent to the fuel tank. This is to increase the surface area of the pipe, and to allow it to act as a heat exchanger. Cooling the fuel is essential before it returns to the tank, because the high pressures used for injection to create more efficient combustion, actually generate a lot of heat in the fuel as it is compressed, and it needs to be dissipated.
It cannot be stressed enough that diesel is essential to also <font color="red">lubricate </font id="red"> all the fuel system components in an HDI design. These components are not cheap, and to experiment with the lubrication, will not help with their reliability in the short, or long term.
I have seen examples of what poor quality fuel can do to the modern HDI engine, and components can, and do get damaged. In certain cases they will seize up! Tiny fragments of swarf from components that have suffered very premature wear can circulate around the entire system, and wreak havoc on the whole system, requiring a thorough investigation, and complete strip down. To assertain what expensive damage has been caused.
When you consider how much design, and engineering has gone into making them as fuel efficient, and powerful as they now are, why experiment with the fuel. It could prove to be a costly mistake that you will regret if things go wrong.
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pikecrazy
- Posts: 126
- Joined: 23 Nov 2004, 00:05
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ACTIVE8</i>
The common rail diesel high pressure injection engines we have now from any manufacturer, are vastly different from previous designs, we had many years ago. The HDI design has many more complex components where <font color="red"> proper lubrication is essential.</font id="red">
All diesel engines utilise the lubricant qualities, and properties of diesel as a means of extra lubrication, but the HDI type of engine even more so.
Generally a HDI engine fuel system consists of in it's very basic form, of unit pump injectors which are computer controled , and injecting fuel at extremely high pressures, which are much greater than earlier more basic non HDI designs.
Low and high pressure pumps deliver the fuel, one at a low pressure draws it from the tank passing it to the high pressure pump, where the extremely high pressures are generated before it is delivered to the injectors.
It is imperative that these components are correctly <font color="red">lubricated, and cooled. </font id="red"> Diesel fuel actually performs both of these essential requirements. When the fuel is returned to the tank it is common to see that the return pipe takes the form of a coiled pipe, adjacent to the fuel tank. This is to increase the surface area of the pipe, and to allow it to act as a heat exchanger. Cooling the fuel is essential before it returns to the tank, because the high pressures used for injection to create more efficient combustion, actually generate a lot of heat in the fuel as it is compressed, and it needs to be dissipated.
It cannot be stressed enough that diesel is essential to also <font color="red">lubricate </font id="red"> all the fuel system components in an HDI design. These components are not cheap, and to experiment with the lubrication, will not help with their reliability in the short, or long term.
I have seen examples of what poor quality fuel can do to the modern HDI engine, and components can, and do get damaged. In certain cases they will seize up! Tiny fragments of swarf from components that have suffered very premature wear can circulate around the entire system, and wreak havoc on the whole system, requiring a thorough investigation, and complete strip down. To assertain what expensive damage has been caused.
When you consider how much design, and engineering has gone into making them as fuel efficient, and powerful as they now are, why experiment with the fuel. It could prove to be a costly mistake that you will regret if things go wrong.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So i take it as , 35 seconds oil should not be used [?]
The common rail diesel high pressure injection engines we have now from any manufacturer, are vastly different from previous designs, we had many years ago. The HDI design has many more complex components where <font color="red"> proper lubrication is essential.</font id="red">
All diesel engines utilise the lubricant qualities, and properties of diesel as a means of extra lubrication, but the HDI type of engine even more so.
Generally a HDI engine fuel system consists of in it's very basic form, of unit pump injectors which are computer controled , and injecting fuel at extremely high pressures, which are much greater than earlier more basic non HDI designs.
Low and high pressure pumps deliver the fuel, one at a low pressure draws it from the tank passing it to the high pressure pump, where the extremely high pressures are generated before it is delivered to the injectors.
It is imperative that these components are correctly <font color="red">lubricated, and cooled. </font id="red"> Diesel fuel actually performs both of these essential requirements. When the fuel is returned to the tank it is common to see that the return pipe takes the form of a coiled pipe, adjacent to the fuel tank. This is to increase the surface area of the pipe, and to allow it to act as a heat exchanger. Cooling the fuel is essential before it returns to the tank, because the high pressures used for injection to create more efficient combustion, actually generate a lot of heat in the fuel as it is compressed, and it needs to be dissipated.
It cannot be stressed enough that diesel is essential to also <font color="red">lubricate </font id="red"> all the fuel system components in an HDI design. These components are not cheap, and to experiment with the lubrication, will not help with their reliability in the short, or long term.
I have seen examples of what poor quality fuel can do to the modern HDI engine, and components can, and do get damaged. In certain cases they will seize up! Tiny fragments of swarf from components that have suffered very premature wear can circulate around the entire system, and wreak havoc on the whole system, requiring a thorough investigation, and complete strip down. To assertain what expensive damage has been caused.
When you consider how much design, and engineering has gone into making them as fuel efficient, and powerful as they now are, why experiment with the fuel. It could prove to be a costly mistake that you will regret if things go wrong.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So i take it as , 35 seconds oil should not be used [?]
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ACTIVE8
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pikecrazy
- Posts: 126
- Joined: 23 Nov 2004, 00:05
If it does not have the same lubricating qualities as the normal low sulphur diesel then NO !
How can i tell other than the number on the drum ie the oil type code ...?
Has the supply has been stored for some time ? Brand new.......
How safe is the supply ? Safe
Will this vehicle be used on the road ? Not sure ......
How can i tell other than the number on the drum ie the oil type code ...?
Has the supply has been stored for some time ? Brand new.......
How safe is the supply ? Safe
Will this vehicle be used on the road ? Not sure ......
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martyhopkirk
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ACTIVE8
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