accumulator sphere worth replacing?

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kid
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accumulator sphere worth replacing?

Post by kid »

Hello to all this my first post! I have just discovered this forum and wished I done so before. I recently bought a vgc xantia, and am in the process of viewing past posts on the xantia, and quite a few there are!
i have two questions
1) the acc sphere is clicking every 12s ( sometimes rising to 20), my indy says it is ok, the brakes are very good, and rises very quickly in the morning. do i need to have this replaced?
2) on a different note just how good should the ride be? On my car road imperfections are smoothed over, hoverever over large obstacles, (eg manhole covers 2-3 inches below road level) the suspension feels like a ‘normal’ car. All 4-comfort spheres are ok, plenty of movement in them, rises smoothly through lever, lhm changed at 72k. So should large holes/imperfections in the road be ironed out or am i expecting to much
Regards
Robin
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Post by Robin »

Hi, welcome to what is a wonderful forum. They are a great lot and it has saved me many hours of frustration.
At a first stab I would suggest you are experiencing the first signs of the the spheres getting weak and age of the car would bear this out. Mileage is not necessarily the deciding factor on when spheres should be changed. They very slowly lose their nitrogen charge through the membrane into the LHM over time.
If you can do it yourself and it is really very straightforward, I would just change all the spheres regardless at this age and mileage.
The way the car handles large holes is not really very much different to conventional suspension because of the forces applied to the supension and thence the body by the sheer depth of the hole and the travel of the suspension. The after shock though is handled very differently and this is damped into a gentle recovery by good spheres.
Don't let them get too bad, it's not worth it. The ticking is not bad yet but it is a bit rapid which again suggests your approaching the end of the useful life of the sphere.
Several sources of good replacement spheres, GSF who support this forum, and some others including Pleaides who regas the spheres for you. They are in Sawtry, Cambridgshire and like GSF do a very good mail order service. Other will comment too so please take heed of their advice, they have been around with Cits far longer than I! Regards, Robin
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Kowalski
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Post by Kowalski »

20 second clicking means that a new accumulator sphere is needed, anything under 30 seconds generally indicates that.
As for your car's ride over 2-3 inch bumps the suspension is not magical, it can't make bumps go away completely, what it can do is reduce the amount of bump you feel. As long as the car passes the push tests, pushing down on each corner, making sure that the front corners go down by 2 inches and the rear by approx 3, the spheres are probably OK. When the suspension of a Xantia is working properly, you should get a supple ride with a bit of a floaty feel to it, small bumps which you feel in other cars just aren't there in the Xantia.
kid
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Post by kid »

Thanks for your replies, basically speaking to the previous owner (last two from the same family, not my family i may add) the fronts were changed round about 60k 2-3 yrs ago, the rear feels very soft when sitting in there so these must have been changed recently to. So ill leave them for now.
Yes the bounce test on the corners works very well, so ill get the accumulator changed next week at specialist £35 they said.
Unfortunately im no mechanic so will leave it to them, although 'i think' i know what to do reading past threads, but i just don’t have the sphere tool or under floor access in my drive. £35 seems ok too.
Yes the car does float a little on some surfaces (esp. uneven) and can be quite frightening at first on the motorway.
Overall the car seems quite good, looking through the specs the dimension generally seems to be a good 'special edition' with good extras such as metallic, a/c, velour and full color coding. Looks nice in green and grey interior.
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

12 seconds for regulator ticking is far too fast and with your car's age and milage I wonder if the regulator non-return valve needs re-seating. This valve is situated in the regulator under the sphere. To re-seat it, simply remove the sphere and take out the bolt that becomes visible and the plate. The ball will probably fall out and you need to catch / find it. Stick it back in its hole with a dab of plain grease and then strike it smartly with a brass punch (NOT STEEL - it will put a flat on the ball) Now re-assemble and you ticking with a sound accumulator should be 30 seconds ++.
You may be able to do this job with the regulator on the car - I've done it on my BX TD.
With regard to your query over the ride I do wonder if your height correctors (particularily front) are really free. If they are a little sticky the car rides a little low and strikes its bump stops very readily giving a rough ride. The correctors need to be really free to work properly and the rod going into the corrector gets dry/corrodes easily.
jeremy
kid
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Post by kid »

quote
'With regard to your query over the ride I do wonder if your height
correctors (particularily front) are really free. If they are a little sticky the car rides a little low and strikes its bump stops very readily giving a rough ride. The correctors need to be really free to work properly and the rod going into the corrector gets dry/corrodes easily.'
ive noticed on short journeys the front of the car does not always fall at rest, however sometimes it does, rather strange. On the occasions it does not drop at rest, the next time i start the car from cold the front drops an inch or so.
After long high-speed journey the front always falls without fail, maybe this could be due to the front corrector sticking? Although the front goes through the height control lever smoothly.
kid
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Post by kid »

Went to have the sphere replaced today at specialist however he seemed to think the 12sec ticking was ok and not worth replacing. I told him 30sec rule but he said its ok. said xantias tick betwwen 8-15 secs depending on model.
Also rang another specialist and said a new sphere will only increase ticking to 20secs.
By the way how long do you have to keep the car idling to get an accurate ticking rate, and should the car be empty or the driver be in their seat?
On the bright side I now have £40 burning a (small) hole in my pocket, and a confused brain!
AWG
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Post by AWG »

I think your problem is the word specialist! My Xantia is somewhere around 90sec unless I have been hauling the power steering around and emergency braking multiple times in a few seconds. The reasons for short tick interval HAVE to be a tired accumulator sphere or leakage somewhere in the system. Leakage from high pressure side can be to low pressure (LHM being pumped round the system) or to the outside world (may be stain on parking bay or distributed over the road network). There is a BX site which lists some Citroen specialist who have proved worthy of the description - there may be one near you. I can't remember the URL offhand but Tom Sheppard will, no doubt, pop it here almost instantly.
Check the tick interval after it has stabilised, usually less than a minute after the car has fully risen. It shouldn't matter whether you are in the car or not but probably not best to time it immediately after 5 of you leap in the car at once.
tomsheppard
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Post by tomsheppard »

www.bxclub.co.uk for list of specialists and lots more, especially the link to BX DIY which will explain the workings of the suspension system clearly (And if you understand it, then it doesn't go wrong!)
If you have £40 to spend then poke around here for posts from Jeremy regarding regulator valve reseating, then search "Hydraurincage" on www.citroenz.com and order a new accumulator sphere from GSF. Be aware that the Xantia sphere is a little tricky to get to
and that you may end up resorting to hammer and chisel to shift it.
(having re read prevoious postings, I see that Jeremy has advised you already.) Finally, a word of caution for all newcomers to Hydraulic Citroens: never, never work on Citroens without Axle stands because they can and DO sink, ungratefully killing their mechanics.
Your car having done around 30,000 miles on its current spheres may well benefit from new suspension spheres. The whole system should be cleaned out periodically and the fluid then replaced. See if there is somebody local to you on this site who has a car that they regard as decent, offer them a pint and ask for a ride in their car. That'll give you a mark to aim for and an idea of realistic expectations.
kid
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Post by kid »

Original posters update
The accumulator sphere was changed last week and now the ticking has gone to much longer lengths i.e. minutes between clicks. Also the problem of the front sometimes staying’ high' and then dropping slightly when starting in the morning has stopped, now the car rises smoothly from the front to. Did the accumulator had any thing to do with this?
Other characteristics i now have are:
With the engine off the sitting on the boot the back rises and falls twice, which i guess is good.
Takes 15 presses of the brake pedal for the click to happen, before it was every time
Light now takes 5-10 secs to go out in the morning, before it went out immediately
Only problem now is the reservoir level is stuck, don’t know what to do here but overall money well spent!
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

That's a new accumulator sphere causing things to calm down ...
The reservoir float may not be stuck. If the reservoir is a bit overfilled, the float will press against the top of the bulb.
You should check the reservoir level and float when suspension is set to Highest height, engine running.
Alternative reservoir level checking if float is suspected to stick, is to set the suspension on lowest with engine running. You should then have max 2" down to the fluid level in the reservoir. Your finger is a perfect gauge.
Overfilling the reservoir has no consequence other than (very) messy spillage.
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Kowalski
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Post by Kowalski »

Sounds like your new accumulator has fixed everything.
The light takes 5-10 secs to go off now because the pump has to pressurise the accumulator. Previously, the accumulator was flat and couldn't store much pressure so it wouldn't take long to fill it up.
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