Bio-Diesel Problem

Brian Oblivion · Unread post by **Brian Oblivion** » 17 Nov 2004, 20:01

I think it seems like a good idea to use a bio-fuel, i.e. the carbon cycle is maintained etc but has anyone thought of where we would get our bio-diesel from if it went mass-market? The waste oil sector would be gone in a flash and it would then be down to growing the stuff specifically for bio-diesel.
How much bio-diesel from the various crops can you yield per acre?
I guess my family consumes - lets be generous here - a couple of litres of vegetable oil per week, my car between 20 and 40 litres of diesel per week. That means we need 10 to 20 times more vegetable oil crops grown, just to drive around in? And we would need a constant supply all year round.
Would that mean 10 to 20 times more farmland being given over to bio-diesel crops?

beezer · Unread post by **beezer** » 17 Nov 2004, 20:05

I have certainly thought about it as I am sure others have. Two litres of oil a week is a tremendous amount. When you consider the amount of 'green manure' crops and the fact that there would be less rotation involved it looks viable.

AWG · Unread post by **AWG** » 17 Nov 2004, 20:06

Well it has been said recently that overproduction by farms should be discouraged and payment made on the basis of maintaining the environment so there's some necessary farming to grow vegetable oil crops. Makes a change.

bxbodger · Unread post by **bxbodger** » 17 Nov 2004, 20:16

Set-aside land would be a good starting point for increased production- there's a lot of it!!

NiSk · Unread post by **NiSk** » 17 Nov 2004, 20:47

It's not just the carbon cycle thats important - just think of the effect it would have on the import quota - suddenly the balance of payments would look a lot brighter, plus the fact that we wouldn't be under the blackmail pressure of the states in the middle east.
BUT the people who control this delicate balance would not be at all happy! Every time the oil producers put their prices up, all the middle men (including the government) get their stakes hiked!
have you ever noticed how quickly petroleum product prices rise when there is unrest or limitations in supply - how that price rise never seems to disappear when the crisis is over? Funny, I wonder where all that extra dough goes??
There is far too much vested interest both corporation-wise and individual government officer-wise to make this thing happen - that's one of the reasons why I think its legit to "do your own thing" with veggie-fuel.
//NiSk

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 17 Nov 2004, 20:55

A hectare of land can produce a tonne of rape seed oil per year if the conditions are right.
I use roughly a tonne of diesel per year, so all I need is my hectare of land...

NiSk · Unread post by **NiSk** » 17 Nov 2004, 20:59

Interesting, Kowalski - I just happen to have a hectare of land . . . . (have to sell the horses though, grandaughter won't like that!).
//NiSk

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 17 Nov 2004, 21:33

The tonne per hectare figure is for the UK, I don't know whether the climate in Sweden will be able to produce as much rape seed oil, but you won't know until you try.

Brian Oblivion · Unread post by **Brian Oblivion** » 17 Nov 2004, 21:37

Kowalski, if your right about a hectare of land producing a tonne of diesel, then 1 million diesel drivers using a tonne a year would need 10,000 sq km or 62.5 miles x 62.5 miles of farmland to grow the stuff on. A hectare is 10,000 sq.m I think.

NiSk · Unread post by **NiSk** » 17 Nov 2004, 22:03

According to the national land survey of 1996, the total arable land in the UK is 54,380 sq km.
Other interesting facts gained from the CIA's world fact book:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/uk.html
are:
Total oil import: 1.418 billion barrels/day
Total oil EXPORT!! 2.205 billion barrels/day
Seems I got the facts wrong about the balance of payments!
Now I understand the conflict of interests!
Poor old Sweden - no oil deposits at all!
//NiSk

mseymour · Unread post by **mseymour** » 17 Nov 2004, 22:10

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by NiSk</i>
Total oil import: 1.418 billion barrels/day
Total oil EXPORT!! 2.205 billion barrels/day
Seems I got the facts wrong about the balance of payments!
Now I understand the conflict of interests!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
That changes somewhat when the North Sea oil runs out. I think that's due sometime soon.

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 17 Nov 2004, 22:25

We're a net importer of oil today we have been for a little while.

NiSk · Unread post by **NiSk** » 17 Nov 2004, 22:37

The figures I gave were for 2001 - sorry should have said so (and then there the fact that it's CIA information!).
//NiSk

beezer · Unread post by **beezer** » 18 Nov 2004, 14:21

How about using the desert for growing fuel? http://www.planet-science.com/sciteach/ ... oba_02.pdf