2.5 diesel XM - yes or no?

Robin · Post by **Robin** » 10 Nov 2004, 23:01

I am looking to change the Xantia for a later model or indeed to go over to the XM 2.5. I need the weight and power to tow. The Xantia does nicely but is working hard.
What is your collective opinion of the 2.5 diesel? Is it similar to the XUD or another beast altogether?
Does it have any quirks or weaknesses?
And as for the XM, well is that another story altogether?
Comments please. [^]

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 10 Nov 2004, 23:06

If you're looking for a good tow car, try to find a 2.1 Xantia. It pulls my 1200Kg Bailey like a dream.

TheWorker · Post by **TheWorker** » 11 Nov 2004, 01:42

if your going to get a 2.5 make sure it had the cambelts done. as it costs a f***in lot, especialy with its 72k service

crooser · Post by **crooser** » 11 Nov 2004, 01:49

get a good xm and maintain it well and it will be the better car.the 2.5 diesel in good condition will take some beating,plus the car's interior is far superior to the xantia.

Robin · Post by **Robin** » 11 Nov 2004, 02:11

Thank you for the comments. My wish is for the 2.5 VSX but they are rare so it's a case of looking and more looking. The Xantia has done very well, had it since new too. I am really pleased with it but the towing is nearly boss of it at times. It's a mobile workshop so not always as well behaved as a caravan!
Which engine is the 2.5 Diesel, XUD derivative? What sort of torque & HP does it put out?

Mosser · Post by **Mosser** » 11 Nov 2004, 02:18

I owned an M reg 2.5td exclusive XM for 3.5 years and covered over 330,000 miles in it, and i dont think it would make a particularly good tow car, the reason being that it overheats so much quicker than a 1.9td xantia, admittedly i used to drive quite fast then!, but i was alarmed at having to have 3 head gaskets and a complete new head in the 300k that i drive in it, i even had to have a complete brand new engine at 42k due to driving 'spiritedly' at a cost of over 7 grand after the head gasket let go in spectacular fashion and i didnt stop quick enough after the alarm
It does have a temp gauge and an audible alarm when the engine gets too hot, but it was a real limiting factor on how hard i could drive it, and before everyone asks, yes i did try a brand new radiator, full flush and backflush (before the new rad) and i had the correct mix of antifreeze in it,
the main trouble seems to be the sandwich of 4 radiators all one behind the other up front and the engine rad was the last to get the (by then hot) air, and i never towed anything with it!, rarely had anything heavy in the car and 99% of the time it was just me in it and no passengers, I just think the engine produces too much waste heat and cant get rid of it properly to be a decent tow car

Robin · Post by **Robin** » 11 Nov 2004, 02:47

Mosser, certainly something to think about. My Xantia gets hot for the same reason I think, too many radiators across the front. Driven gently when towing it's fine, even in the hot weather. Try anything quickly and it soon has the temp gauge heading upwards, but only when the trailer is on the back. Yes I too have done the rads, flushing etc. No head gasket though. (yet)
How do they cope with this on the continent?
Robin.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 11 Nov 2004, 03:10

They use Japanese 4X4's!!!!

rg · Post by rg » 11 Nov 2004, 03:11

My 2.5 does run hot, and I think that it's a case of it being "under-radiatored".
The cooling bits seemed to be made something semi-metallic and water-soluable. Hence I run with 50% mix to offset corrosion, but which does not help heat transfer.
My theory on head gaskets is as follows: as these engines all probably suffer some kind of occasional cooling system trauma due to poor components, this puts repeated stress on the head, which eventually gives way. Plus the design of the cooling systems gives little "grace" when failure occurs. I don't think it's any worse than the XUD, but just has to put up with poor components as well as poor thermal efficiency.
Having said all this, the CCC magazine XM columnist tows over the Alps with his 2.5 and reports no trouble....
rg
2.5 VSX

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 11 Nov 2004, 04:15

No, the reasaon the 2.5 TD gets hot is that Citroën in thier wisdom decided to use an air/water intercooler on it. This manages fine as long as you are only pulling yourself and your passengers, but put a heavy load on the car and wizz - up goes the water temperature! The intercooler dissipates the boost air temperature into the cooling system - a really naff idea. So as Mosser says, it not a terribly good car to tow with, although it haa a wonderful pull from about 1200 rpm in all gears.
The standard output is 130 hp but they can easily be tweeked up to 150 - 170 hp.
I heard about someone fitting an Audi A4 TDI intercooler instead of the air/water version - but the question is where to put it? On the A4 its tucked down in the wheel arch and exits throught a vent into the wheel housing.
Thge other big problem with the 2.5TD is that it takes such a lot of space - its about equal to the V6 and doing absolutely anything , apart from changing the oil filter on it is a monumental task. I though about checking teh condition of the water pump drive belt, but after an hour of removing things, I hadn't got very far and had to put it all back again due to lack of time. I did however, manage to remove the hydraulic reservoir after peforming a Hydraincage clean, but it involved removing the battery (not the battery box as Haynes maintains), the air filter assembly, the air intake trunking with Air Mass sensor, removing ALL the return and suction pipes from the top of the tank.
I also thought I would change the auxiliary drive belt - but that reuires a special tool to tension the belt tensioner and a specially angled 6mm Alan key to release the pressure roller, oh and a locking pin to hold the tensioner retracted while changing belts . . .
I certainly miss my old 2.1 TD12! If only Citroën had chosen the Bosch electronic injection pump for the series 2 TD12 instead of that dreadfull LUCAS EPIC abortion, it would be both easily tunable and have a reasonable lifespan!
//NiSk

pete_wood_uk · Post by **pete_wood_uk** » 11 Nov 2004, 15:16

Robin, you write:
=> My wish is for the 2.5 VSX but they are rare so
=> it's a case of looking and more looking.
I don't know which part of the UK you're in, but there's a guy in Diss in Norfolk (Wolsey House Motors, aka Citroen Autospares) with a yard full of XMs. This isn't an advert, but I just traded in my CX to him and got an HDi Xantia Estate in exchange (new baby == sensible car), and am very happy with what I bought.
Pete

Robin · Post by **Robin** » 11 Nov 2004, 15:39

Pete, thanks for the info. Will check him out. R

madasafish · Post by **madasafish** » 11 Nov 2004, 18:23

Look on Autotrader

1994 M Reg CITROEN XM 2400 cc 2.5 TD VSX, Roneo Car Centre 5 Doors, Manual, Hatchback, Diesel, 136,000 miles, Green, Manual, ABS, AirCon / Climate, Alarm / Immobiliser, Central Locking, Driver Airbag, Electric Windows and Mirrors, PAS, Full Service History., Web: . . . . *multi-photos(trade)
£1,995
147 miles

95(N) CITROEN XM Turbo D VSX 2.5 Litre Diesel engine, SJ Rayner 5 door, Estate, Saphire Blue / Grey Cloth, 92900 miles, ABS Brakes, Sunroof, Central Locking, Alarm, Driver's Airbag, Power Steering, Title Check, Immobiliser, Climate Control, MFD Computer, Electric . . . . *multi-photos(trade)
£2,490
53 miles

1997 P Reg CITROEN XM 2.5 TD VSX KC 2000 Ltd 5 Doors, Manual, Estate, Diesel, 108,000 miles, Metallic midnight blue, 1 Owner. ABS, Anti theft system, Driver airbag, Electric mirrors, Electric windows, Foglights, Electric sunroof, Full MoT, . . . . (trade)
£2,895
112 miles

CITROEN XM 2.5 VSX Estate 96 (N) green, fsh, 120k, towbar, very . . . . (trade)
£3,250
145 miles

CITROEN XM 2.5 VSX Estate 95 (N) only, 58k, fsh, tidy, clean, . . . . (trade)
£3,850
145 miles

CITROEN XM 2.5 VSX Hatch 96 (N) 88k, fsh, 1 owner, perfect body & . . . . (trade)
£3,995
145 miles

CITROEN XM 2.5 Exclusive 96 (P) low miles, fsh, suede/leather, . . . . (trade)
£4,300
145 miles

CITROEN XM 2.5 VSX Estate 97 (R) fsh, cruise, a/c, unmarked inside and . . . . (trade)

pete_wood_uk · Post by **pete_wood_uk** » 11 Nov 2004, 18:36

Several of which are at the guy in Diss whom I mentioned...

That'll be the block that's 145 miles from you...
Pete

davek-uk · Post by **davek-uk** » 11 Nov 2004, 18:56

They seem hellishly expensive - do they genuinely command such a high price?