New Citroens are rubbish. Discuss...

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ItDontGo
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New Citroens are rubbish. Discuss...

Post by ItDontGo »

We lets face it they are a cheap and nasty. They go wrong canstantly after leaving the factory. Sure they may have everything for not very much money but whats the point if it never works?
macaroni
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Post by macaroni »

Just the other day as I waited in the local Cit dealership for my parts, I was thinking how cool the new Citroens are.
I reckon the Saxo/Xsara period was the worst as the cars were very bland. The new models, however, are great!
I, personally, don't subscribe to the VW way of thinking that cars should be built like nuclear shelters but be dull as ditchwater. I would much prefer a car to have the personality of, say, a C3 and be flimsy than a Polo.
Just my 2p-orth.
reffro
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Post by reffro »

Touch wood, my C3 HDi has been near perfectly reliable, bar an occasional glitch with the central locking(which I now know how to remedy). Its been obscenely economical, cheap to service & insure, and has all the gadgets I wanted in a car(A/C, CD, Remote locking, power steering). That it cost me £7800 to buy when it was 5 months old, and saved me £3200 on the list price, was the other bonus.
ralph
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Post by ralph »

Surely cheap and nasty is a good thing? On this forum, just about all of us buy cars of at least 3 years old when the first owner has ironed its problems out thanks to its warranty.
Cits are heavily discounted - which depresses second-hand values, and they have a bad reputation for complexity and unreliability, making them cheaper still.
Talk to any independent car dealer and he'll tell you that Peugeots fly off the forecourt while the equivalent Cit hangs around for weeks.
In truth they're no worse than anything else. So their bad reputation among the uninformed is a good thing!
ItDontGo
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Post by ItDontGo »

Some good points. I like it. Personally I'm thinking of getting a C2 if its any match for my AX. The only problem is I imagine is has all kinds of vile assistance added to the brakes and the steering.
macaroni
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Post by macaroni »

The main thing that struck me about the C2 was it's size - it is huge. I am 6'2" and I have about 6" of space above my head. They do look great though, especially the higher spec models with the body colour fake grill.
Compared to an AX you will be disappointed with the lack of feel. Road tests say it feels numb compared to a Saxo! Gone are the days of cars like the AX I am afraid.
As an aside, years ago I heard it said that a whole AX weighs the same a Jag V12 engine? Could this be true?
bxbodger
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Post by bxbodger »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">New Citroens are rubbish. Discuss<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
And, come to think of it, so are the old ones! Take my BX (please!!!!) The rubbish wiring, 'orrible mild steel rust-magnet hydraulic piping, the cheese headed bleed nipples, the useless screen washer system, headlights worse than on a BSA Bantam, and the moronic lack of something as basic as a temp. gauge........on the other hand it was very cheap, the engine is excellent and quick to service, it's comfortable ( if a bit short on legroom ), and runs on cooking oil!!
Clarkson got it right on sunday about new Cits- they don't screw bits on-they attach them with spit and hope!
I mentioned before on here somewhere about my mates new Picasso, which came straight from a storage field with a dent in the sill and no door rubber-consequently the carpets were wet even before it had turned a mile- it had never been near a PDI.
It was sorted by the supplying dealer, but not without hassle, but, then, it was cheap..........
macaroni
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Post by macaroni »

But this problem isn't confined to Citroens is it? Peugeots are worse and I say that a huge Pug fan. Rovers are diabolical too.
paranoid
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Post by paranoid »

My k plate rover 416 was an amazingly reliable car, brother in laws later bubble shape ( t reg I think) was an absolute nightmare.
You say the pipework is a rust magnet? true but have you been under a ford from about L reg on? the rust is like a blast from the past, took the bumpers off several P/R/S reg mondeo's a year ago looking for some un rusty pipework gave up after about 15 cars ABSOLUTE CRAP.
At least your sort of expecting it with a citroen
VisaGTi16v
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Post by VisaGTi16v »

macaroni, whats the room like in the foot well and under the steering wheel etc in a c2? Reason i ask is that im 6'3 and i cant drive a saxo/106 due to the wheel arch coming so far and the lack of room around the pedals.
Thunderbird

Post by Thunderbird »

Have ssen some french statistics (in france there are many citroens) and is interesting to see that Citroens are becoming more reliable with time. There are three exceptions:
- When a new model appears, in the first 1 to 3 years there are many problems that will be solved at the assembly line, so that the same model after the third year is much more reliable except if engine is new or there are new features.
- Problems of electronic nature seem be increasing instead of getting more reliable like other mechanical elements.
- Modern diesel engines do not seem to be so reliable like older ones, and repairing them is much more expensive. Some parts cost a fortune! This is the price to pay for increasing power and binary on a engine with the same size. In the old days, a 2.0 liter 4 cilinder Diesel had 75Hp. Now it has 140Hp and the next generation will have 170Hp!
New cars are safer, more economical, more ecological, more silent, have interesting features like rain sensor, parking sensors, information on tyres pressure, semi-automatic gearboxes, etc.
On the downside, suspension isn't getting more confortable (DS still reigns!), maintenance is hard to do at home, and some electronic problems can be a realy headache - hard to dettect, making the car inoperative, etc.
macaroni
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Post by macaroni »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by VisaGTi16v</i>

macaroni, whats the room like in the foot well and under the steering wheel etc in a c2? Reason i ask is that im 6'3 and i cant drive a saxo/106 due to the wheel arch coming so far and the lack of room around the pedals.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
More room than you can shake a stick at. It is nothing at all like a 106/Saxo and I agree, I find their footwells very restrictive.
martyhopkirk

Post by martyhopkirk »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ItDontGo</i>

We lets face it they are a cheap and nasty. They go wrong canstantly after leaving the factory. Sure they may have everything for not very much money but whats the point if it never works?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I purchased a Metro 1.3L new in 1988 - it needed a respray, new drivers door lock and worse of all a new short engine thanks to a faulty batch of camshafts.
That was 25 years ago and I dont feel its improved a lot since - and wasnt much betetr before if my fathers tale of the Vauxhal with a rusty wing delivered new at the dealership sometime in the very late 1960's.
Still, on the upside the C3 Pluriel and C2 are cracking looking cars.
adzbaby
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Post by adzbaby »

I don't know much about the new Cits, maybe on day when I grow up I will be able to afford a car worth more than £1k but I love my Xantia's.
A pain in the ass to work on but when you start getting stuck into the jobs and get to really know the car you can't help but get attached (guess its the same regardless to make).
And when the ol xantia's working they are lovely to drive and still look really good. You look at many other designs from the early nineties and decide if they still look as good as the body shape of (hatchback; estates look rancid) Xantia's!!
You gotta luv em.
alan s
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Post by alan s »

I personally think Cit buyers/owners are their own biggest enemies; this thread being a good case in point.
Have you ever been on any other model specific forum where the cars they drive are constantly bagged as they are on any Citroen forum? It seems to be the nature of the beast.
There has never been a car made that has had as much negative comment made about it as the Citroen. I'm not pointing a finger at any person, any forum or any model, I'm talking Citroens per se.
The tractions had their knockers, as did the D series (heaps of them; but today........?) CX and GS right up to the later C5s and so on.
People have been indoctrinated to go looking for weird and wonderful problems in Cits based on the pub talk and urban myths of the past. Let's be honest, it really started in earnest back in the 50's when the cars being driven were things like a Ford Prefect (affectionately known as a 'Defect') Hillmans, Vanguard, Standard & Triumph, Austin A40 or if you were real rich, a side valved Ford Pilot. Then along comes a car with Front wheel drive, hydraulic independant suspension, disc brakes and all kinds of things we used to read about in "Flash Gordon" comics. The grease monkeys didn't know where to start, so took the easy option of declaring them "so complicated to work on they cost more to repair than the car's worth" and that was the birth of high Citroen service costs. It has gone from there. Repairers can see big money in keeping this myth alive and I suppose, if eveybody says it, then it has to be right; that's the theory they work to.
These days when I get this "difficult to work on, different, weird, quirky" comment, I ask what is so unusual about a FWD car with an east west engine and they'll invariably point to the suspension; "but there's nothing wrong there, it's in the engine....well they're still too hard to work on." They have no genuine reason but will still use the 1955 argument.
The worst car I ever owned was without doubt a Holden/Vauxhall/Opel out here that ended up undriveable whilst under warranty and I was told by the service manager at the dealership that "it was within GMHs acceptable standards." I was using it as a driving school car & had to eventually take it to another dealership, pay the extra and get it fixed there. When I sold it, I took it for an = to AAA inspection to get it's final warranty service checked prior to booking it in and was told by the inspector that if it was a second hand car he was doing a pre-purchase examination on, he would recommend that I didn't buy it; the car had done just under 20,000 klms at that time. I have worked at or managed Ford and Toyota franchises and I can tell you some of the problems those guys can have are multiples worse than those experienced by the majority of Cit owners, but the other breeds tend to take problems in their stride whereas Cit owners tend to be more sensative due to this expectation of endless problems, as a result when it doesn't happen, they seem to start looking for them.
By the same token, I have to wonder about Citroen dealers and to a point Cit distributors at the attitude they display; could it be that their lack of interest when people do have a problem is brought about due to the fact that so many cry wolf and regardless of how good the cars are, the majority of owners will just go looking for problems which may never create a problem during their ownership of the car?
The "Can't win" syndrome?
Alan S
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